The Peaceful Home

Episode 32: Becoming Un-Dependent One Day at a Time with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT

June 07, 2022 Pamela Godbois
The Peaceful Home
Episode 32: Becoming Un-Dependent One Day at a Time with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT
Show Notes Transcript

In this week’s episode, Marissa Esquibel is revealing all of her insight into understanding co-dependency and how to make personal shifts in your inner world to become un-dependent. Marissa shares her own struggle with co-dependency and her journey to helping other young women with these same struggles. 


Marissa Esquibel is not like a regular therapist, she's a cool therapist. She provides talk therapy online to 20-somethings struggling with codependency. She's also the hostess with the mostest of The Codependummy Podcast, a show dedicated to helping young women to stop playing small and start taking up space! Marissa is also a twin, an avid reader, and a practitioner of all-things self-care.


If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram Stories and tag us, @pamgodboiscoaching and @therapywithmarissa


In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Marissa shares her journey through the realization that she is co-dependent and what she has been doing ever since. 
  • She shares her definition of co-dependency and you may be shocked to learn it could describe you!
  • Marissa shares her knowledge and wisdom regarding recovery and becoming un-dependent. 
  • Marissa shares her entrepreneurial journey during a global pandemic and how this pushed her to do things differently. 
  • The importance of, and the path to finding your own alignment when it comes to making un-dependent decisions in your own life with confidence and clarity. 




LINKS:

Marissa’s Websites: https://codependummy.com and https://therapywithmarissa.com/


Marissa’s Journaling Tools: https://codependummy.com/toolsforhealing/



Connect with me:  Instagram, Facebook, and Tiktok


If you’re like “I love listening to Pam chat with guests.” Then head over and write a review! We really appreciate your support and it helps us to keep growing!!  https://pamgodbois.com/ApplePodcast Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to tune in next week.

The best thing you can do for yourself and your kids is effectively regulate your nervous system. And a great place to start >> to wire the brain for gratitude. Research tells us that gratitude increases happiness and a peaceful mindset. Make the shift and watch how things in your life start to change. Sign up today! www.pamgodbois.com/gratitude

Pam:

Hey guys. And welcome back to the out of your mind podcast. On today's episode. I had a chance to sit down with therapist and codependency expert, Marissa Escobar. Marissa works with 20 something year olds who are struggling with codependency. So, if you've ever felt like you spend way too much time, effort and energy, focusing on how other people feel. There is a chance you might be codependent. And this is the perfect episode for you so let's dive in Awesome. Well, thank you Marissa, for being here with me today for being willing to be on the podcast and sharing your story and all the amazing work that you're doing. I'm super excited to have you. I want to just start, I guess, just by asking thinking about the work that you're doing, thinking about your story, I would love for you to share. The story that brought you to where you are now to doing the work that you're doing, how did you get there? What, what does your journey look like?

Marissa:

So I'll go to the recent past. I became a licensed marriage and family therapist. I'm in California at the burbs of Los Angeles. I became licensed in September of 2018, actually joke that I don't have a spirit animal, but I have a spirit month and September is my spirit month. And so that's when I became licensed that's I think the year prior, my husband and I, we purchased our home. I bought my big girl car maybe two years before like big things happen in September and I became licensed. I was working in. What I call the wild west of mental health. So community mental health, there's for those who are listening, I have my hands in a fork shaped like a fork in the road, and there's what I learned in graduate school. How to be a therapist with a client coming meet for 50 minutes, see you next week. And then there was the wild west of therapy, which I was thrown into. Little baby coming out of graduate school. And I was working there. Yeah, really back-breaking bone shattering, really difficult work. I became licensed and that was my ticket to freedom. I'm free. And so I left community mental health. I was working with foster and probation youth. And I went to go work at a group practice, which is a fancy way of saying office, which with a bunch of therapists working together, we were a group and I was there for a year, took every insurance panel under the sun, worked with every kids, couples, families, adolescents, elders, and. I think I, I when I got licensed, I was studying and consuming. I love, I love psychology. I love psychotherapy. I love, I love my job. And when I passed my test, there was a vacuum. Created because before passing the test, I was studying for that test. I was studying for a lot of ethics test. I was studying in graduate school. And so I started to listen to what this vacuum and nothing to do and nothing to read. I started reading about really cool therapists. With their cool private practices and their cool specialties and their coaching of therapists. What is this world? And I was working at the group practice, did that for a year, but yeah, consuming all this cool content. And at first it was a whisper and then it was a soft voice. And then I went to the therapy. Re-imagined, it's a conference in Los Angeles and was just surrounded by all these cool therapists and like an internal, intuitive yelling versa. You need to start a private practice, you can do this. And so I. January of 2020. I informed all my patients at the group practice I'm leaving. I will not be taking insurance. I will be charging this much. And if you continue, you will only have to pay this month. It's a little, little sales, little baby sales rep at that moment for myself and PM. I started my practice. I found the cutest office on the cutest street. And the cutest downtown area, I got an L-shaped couch, so I can do a little fried hand work with my patients. And I started on March 1st of 20, 20. I knew what was

Pam:

coming. When you said you're leaving the group maximum. I'm like, oh shit.

Marissa:

And I, the second week I printed out a. Considerations for Corona virus. For my handful of patients, my fledgling practice, five of the young 20-something college students graduates grad students or young professionals. Of all my, I probably had between 30 and 40 patients, five 20 somethings followed me and I had an affinity for them. I started to, Ooh, I'm really looking forward to seeing like this group. So thankfully five followed me. I added a couple in the first two weeks and yeah. Said considerations for coronavirus. And in that. I communicated. If things continue to worsen, we can transition to meeting virtually meeting via tele-health and yeah, by the end of that week, it was Friday the 13th. I saw a young man that day and he. Was a perfect college student struggling with direction in life. And he was also like, and I drove home Pam and I really truly thought I'm going to die. I'm going. So, cause we didn't know what it was. We didn't know what the symptoms were. We just knew if you got it, you died. So I, I drove home and I told my husband I'm going virtual because I don't, I wasn't present with that patient. I, I did my best, but yeah, he's coughing and I'm like, oh my God. And I transitioned to virtual. I've been virtual ever since. So it's been two years and I, talk about learning how to be an entrepreneur and starting a private practice. Welcome to the wild west of practice building virtually during a pandemic, an economic downturn, you're experiencing the same, the same. Anxiety as your patients and you're having to sit and listen and be supportive. They're dealing. Yeah. You're just nodding along. Yeah, I know this is terrifying. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. And yeah, I think fully had a couple really strong. Supporters, some friends who are therapists in private practice. I was able to invest in certain marketing courses and products to help me. And I had the time I had the energy, I had the desperation. And so it was wild west of practice building, starting a podcast. I want it, I want a podcast course, and I have the time I had the energy. Yeah. The specialty and fast forward, I built the practice. The podcast has been going on for a year and, and now I'm sitting here with

Pam:

you and I was sitting here with me. So I'm curious. Well, I want to go back to the, I want to go back to your, your beginning. What prompted you? Like, why did you want to become a therapist in the first.

Marissa:

I grew up. My dad was a therapist, a social worker, and I, since I did appreciate, enjoy and. Looked up to some of the stories he shared the work he was doing. He had a really successful men's group. And I actually remember going, I dunno, there was a pickup or drop off mix up. And so I remember being really little and sitting outside, waiting for my mom to come. And there were all these men and yeah, he had this really radical men's group, helping a lot of guys. He works in the emergency room doing psych evaluations and yeah. Sensing if people were safe to return home or they really needed to be put on a hold for their safety. And I, I went to grad or no, I went to my undergrad. I got into a really good school in California, but I'm a twin. And I have a older sister and my twin ended up going to the same school as my older sister. And looking back 18 years, olds co-dependent with my family, very dependent in a, in a understanding. And compassionate wait with my twin just first day of school, every practice, every new thing I had a buddy and we, we are, we are and have been best friends. I joke I have about nine more months of social intelligence than the average person, because, we were, we were in there together and I went to school. I. It was party school. I didn't know it was optional. And so I, I, when you're in Rome and I partied, I gained a bunch of weight. I, academic probation was a 2.0 or lower. And my first quarter I got a 2.07. So just like barely, under the radar, but barely getting by. And what ended up happening was I hit an emotional, physical, spiritual, educational bottom. And my dad, I was, I just cried for a whole summer. And then. Would provide counsel on the phone. And eventually he said, I think you need to talk to someone. And I said, but I have you. And yeah, he was like I mean, he wasn't helping, ultimately he wasn't. And I went to the counseling center, saw a therapist every week for a year. Started running half marathons, lost weight, like a healthy amount of weight. It wasn't about the weight and graduated early. And I took some psychology classes because I was able to, and just sense that oh, I can do this for a job. And so that's been it. And I, like I said, I love the field. I love my work. I love psychology. So yeah. Just was aligned with my heart. Yeah.

Pam:

Yeah. And when you started talking about your dad being a social worker I have a 13 year old are diamonds to you, both my husband and I are both therapists. And we're always like, oh, when she was little, we'd be like, oh no, we're going to raise a therapist because literally every therapist that I know that has like children that are grown enough to be out in the world, doing things. Social worker, you know, they're they're therapists, they're doing social work. They're doing, working in probation, they're doing like human service work. And I was like, oh, it's going to be her. Except that my 13 year old decides she wanted to open a bakery. And actually she's starting an virtual. No she's selling her things virtually. Wow. Delivering them locally, but yeah, she started she's she's starting up a bakery. So I was like, oh good. Like she won't lose, she'll get there. But I mean, it's a very common thing because you do, because you see the impact that the work, you have the opportunity to see the impact that it worked, that your dad was doing was making on people's lives. Right. Which is really a cool opportunity. We don't all get that. And sometimes I feel like in the, in these fields, the helping fields, we get a lot of us that land in the helping fields have had people in our lives that have made an impact. Maybe it was a therapist we saw, maybe it was a school teacher. Maybe it was someone that, my dad. It was very kind and compassionate and caring and give you the shirt off his back. He was a plumber, but he grew up in an environment that, that, he needed to be that person. So it's just interesting how we get drawn to things we get drawn to. So yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So one of the things that you mentioned, and I was curious about this because you're a twin but also just, being a woman in the world and. Working with young young adults. Can you talked about that dependency or codependency piece? And I would love, and that's the work that you're doing, right? That's like the bulk of the work that you do. And I would love for you to share a little bit about that work. And then, and I guess maybe how did you end up there? Because there's a lot, obviously I know this because I've worked in community mental health, there's lots of paths you can take as a therapist and as a coach. So I'm really curious to know how you ended up looking and doing work around codependency.

Marissa:

Well, I have a working definition of codependency on my show and I say working because it's, I might add or drop or change. Codependency is a way of being where one prioritizes the thoughts, feelings, and needs of others. And an unconscious attempt to fulfill their own feelings that's and needs.

Pam:

I love that.

Marissa:

I remember learning about codependency in grad school in contrast, or in conjunction with an alcoholic male alcoholic husband codependent, enabling white. That's how I learned about it. And I also learned about dependent personality disorder and there are some of the common symptoms were not able to make decisions worried what other people will think. Mm, like always needing to be around people, obsessively seeking approval from others. And there are some that sound worse and yeah, it does. It sounds weak, pathetic, desperate. And I sense that learning about codependency, I was able to see how. It's not just what the alcoholic husband, it could be with anyone. And so almost combining what I read in the literature, like the substance abuse literature, and then when I saw dependent personality disorder, which person personality disorder, again, we paint it. Like they're just really struggling. And here I was doing very well. But also struggling. And so taking this literature and combining it reflecting on my own life, I was able to see how I really just had an air this way of being where, whether I was ordering coffee. And worried about the barrista cause other people were being jerks or he, or she seemed to be in a bad mood. And I, I wanted to, to help them feel better to my parents and my partners. Just always thinking about what they're needing, what they're thinking, how they're feeling and how to make it better. I just. I was able to see how pervasive codependency was in my life and yeah. Having a twin. I don't know. I know a lot of twins. They're not all codependent, but I am. And. Yeah, I think for my twin and I, it just, it, our relationship while it's beautiful to have a buddy, I best became dependent on a buddy. And yeah, she ultimately was prettier, skinnier, more popular than me. What that ended up. Not being so I, yeah, how I perceived that wasn't healthy and yeah, it just became really arguably obsessive with how I was being perceived by other people all the time. So totally reliant and dependent on their approval. And so with all this life experience and wisdom, I. Through therapy through a tenant's in 12 step groups through seeking any and all resources and tools that I can. I sensed a need to help other young women dealing with very similar internal lives.

Pam:

I love that. Thank you. And I think. And I, one of the things that I say all the time, you talk about like dependent personality disorder, codependency, and whatever is, is none of that, that, our stories get developed as a result of our experiences. Right. And it's not it's not, it doesn't make, nobody's a bad person because of any of the things. Yeah. Okay. This, this is the story. And like you said, not all twins develop a dependency, but because you mentioned it, I was like, Ooh, like I wonder if there's something there because I can see that. I mean, I'm, I am, I have, there's a big age gap in my family. And so I was like solo and figuring it all out on my own. And, and that's not necessarily the hasn't necessarily served me the best either. Right. Cause I had a tendency early on to not take anybody. Else's. Opinion into consideration. I was like, screw you, your opinion doesn't matter. Right. And so there, we can be on either end of the spectrum and either one can be not of service, but the work that you're doing, working with individuals around becoming an independent, right. What does that work look like? What is the, what is the kind of stuff that you're doing right now? And what did you do for you? How did you become, and you said therapy and what was your process though? To cause it's a healing process? It's not just okay. Close the door,

Marissa:

right. For me, I sense that I truly became aware. It's so interesting. So in studying for that licensing exam, back in 2018, I love this field. I love reading and listening. If, if I had been convicted of a crime at that time, my alibi would have been, I was studying because I was studying all the time outside of work. And I do recall. Being at a Starbucks reviewing rereading about dependent personality disorder and thinking, oh God. And yeah, just again. Right. Probably being co-dependent with the barista who I just ordered with being codependent at work and. I remember going to my therapist that week and saying, I really, I think I'm co-dependent yes, I'm anxious. I have anxiety, but I'm anxious about people being angry at me. I'm depressed at times, but the thing that tends to trigger my depression is when I've disappointed someone. And I can't tolerate having done that to them. I have memories, we could label as trauma and I'm doing my utmost to avoid similar experiences by being as amenable and pleasing to others as I can. So it was bringing into therapy and starting to talk about codependency in that environment. I did start attending co-dependents anonymous. It's a free 12 set program. And the only requirement is a desire for healthy relationships. Actually, I think it's healthy and loving relationships. I remember going to my first meeting and being like, yes, I belong. And I got a sponsor. I went to meetings, I worked the 12 steps. I read everything under the sun, melody, BD, PML LT, and then even old-school Alfred Adler talks about the separation of tasks he talks about. Yeah. Being able to define what are, what are your tasks? What are you needing to do? And then relinquishing people to their own tasks. And. It's I journaling every day meditating and it's, it's been, I mean, even this week, I actually sat down with a potential guests for my podcast. CodePen dummy podcast, 15, 20 minutes. I sat with this potential guest. And after we had wrapped up viscerally, I sensed, yeah, I dunno if I want to have this person, even though, while we met, we said goodbye. I was like, I'll send you the information. Something was off. And thankfully I had therapy hour later and I said, Mr. Therapist, I have to talk about this. And by the end, like 20, 30 minutes of unpacking, oh, this was said, and this was said, and I felt this here, I was able to discern. I don't want to have this person now I need to email them and say, I've, I've I've sense that it's not a good idea, or I even, I have a hard time even imagining how to phrase it. It's going to probably take me a half an hour, an hour to write this email, but the rage, right? The, or the disappointment, the judgment, the negative perception. It's still ongoing, but yeah, it's not the. Idiot. Ex-boyfriends superficial friendship. Backbreaking bone shattering work I was doing to please other people it's sending emails from my podcasts. So

Pam:

I love that you just shared that because I think that oftentimes when we look to other people that have gone through doing the work, whatever the work is, and it sounds like you put in the same amount of effort to doing your own work, as you did. And. If I had committed a crime during that timeframe, my alibi would have been, I was studying like, you put a lot of effort into learning and studying and getting to where you were from a professional perspective. And you did the exact same, obviously different work, but you like turn the lens to I have something that I've identified. I can do this work now. And you, and you did the things you walked, the walk, you're practicing, you're continuing to do these things. And I think it's so valuable to share. There should still comes up and it might not be, it might not be dealing with an intimate relationship, but it's still got a. Put a boundary in place and be clear and communicate, and that can still be hard as uncertain in some circumstances for lots of different reasons. And I love that you shared that because I think oftentimes we think that oh, you did the work now. You're now you're good. You don't, you don't have these issues anymore. Yeah. That's all. So, I mean, it's not awesome that you have to go through the emotional feeling, but I it's a great, it's a great opportunity. I always say, like every time we have a, we run across the struggle, whatever it might be. It's a great opportunity to, to do the work, to learn more about ourselves, to see what comes out on the other side to celebrate our successes, to celebrate are falling flat on our face. All of those things are amazing and it's part of the growth process. So I love that. What is the work that you're doing now? As a you've taken this, you've done your part. You're doing your personal work. I always say done, but I don't mean done. Just so everybody that's listening. I don't mean them. The work's not still happening. You're cultivating your own story, your own journey. And now you have this opportunity to be sharing. Like you said, your wisdom along with your academic knowledge in helping other people start to. What does that work look like?

Marissa:

One thing I was inspired to create like a tactical tool back in, I believe it was September, October,

Pam:

November,

Marissa:

spirit month. And I put together a collection of. 31 journaling prompts for a more conscious and less co-dependent you. Because for my, I call them my girls for my girls, for my listeners and for my patients, I encourage and emphasize that listening to my podcast, everyone listening to Pam's podcasts. This is great. This is such good content to listen to and integrate in your life. And also there's a quote from the book, women who run with the wolves. I'm also butchering this. She says, if we could realize that the work is doing the work. Then we'd be much more fierce and something else. I remember the fierce part. So I emphasize listening is a start. And also, how, how is your journaling going? How is your meditation and prayer life? How are you taking care of your body? What's going on with those boundaries at work with your partner or with friends it's really looking at and, and dedicating time to different areas and aspects in your life where your struggles have a ripple effect. So I'm hoping with the journaling, with my listeners and I have a, a tab on my podcast website. It's codependency.com forward slash tools for healing because I plan to create. A any tool I'm on, said meditation on said taking care of your body on said basics of boundaries. So I just, just started with the journaling. That's something tactical and yeah. With what the listeners, I have a self-validation challenge. That's free. So it's 30 days. Again, I don't, I, I guess, 30 days is a good start. So I have a script in there and every night it's a way to review the day and validate yourself. This went well. I stood up for myself here. I conveyed my feelings with this person. And it's a way to codependents tend to seek that validation. They don't tend to, they do seek validation. I mean, it's just, it was, I was just, I'm not a thirsty hope, but I was like, so thirsty. Just, just like in how I interacted with others. And this is an attempt to quench your own thirst. And so that actually came, it was inspired by a listener who came on for some coaching. So the self-validation challenge, writing journaling prompts, and then with my therapy patients, it's. I love Gina grams. It's a really cool way to talk about a boss, family tree and looking at the layers of, of codependency intergenerationally, how that impacted memories, ways of interacting with others secrets, et cetera. So Gina Graham work and. A lot of, I am more psychodynamic. And so it is a lot of work over time looking at present triggers, present situations, and then basically saying okay, who's your mom in this situation? Who's your dad. Who's your, your sister or brother who you have conflict with in the past, and how are you recreating those patterns and attempt to look at it, become more conscious and create a new way of interacting.

Pam:

That's awesome. That's awesome. It is. Yeah, because I think that you're also speaking to the hope that. You're also speaking to the component of hope that there is a way to become an independent, there is a way to interact and connect and relate in a different, in a new and a healthier way. Or you don't have to, in order to become a, an dependent, you don't have to isolate yourself from people. Right. And I I've had, I have had people say this and we will, I'm really codependent. So I've just cut everybody out of my life. I'm like, how's that working for ya? That's a, I mean, for me anyway, that would be a very sad and it was for her as well. It was like a sad, she was like, I don't, I don't really have anybody in my life because I've cut them all out of my life. And so, I love that the notion of like hope that you can do this work, whether it's the work of self stuff. Right. Whether it's the journaling and meditation, and maybe it's going to finding co-dependents anonymous meetings around you because they are everywhere. Or whether it's like jumping into therapy or whether it's like looking at coaching and, and thinking about that, this context and looking at the coaching piece. Cause we were talking about this a little bit before and as entrepreneurs and as newer entrepreneurs listening. One of the struggles or one of the things that can come up is codependency in that dynamic,

Marissa:

right. Thousand percent. Yeah. So can you talk a

Pam:

little bit about that? What, how this shows up for entrepreneurs and what that might look like and, what are some strategies or things that we can do so that we, first of all, recognize it, right? Have awareness of this pattern, then how it's transferred and then go from there.

Marissa:

One of the courses I took. Right before I started, my practice was there's a therapist. Her name is Tiffany McClain she's. I saw her at that conference, these cool therapists, and she has a course lean in make bank. So she helps therapists mostly in private practice to increase their rates and, and create the at least income in their private practice of their dreams. And in a pre-course interview, her, her operations manager, I believe she asked me, is there anything Tiffany and I need to be aware of before we start. And I said, I'm codependent and I need to be mindful if I'm, when I'm provided feedback to. Take some time with said feedback, meditate, onset feedback, and discern whether it's in alignment with the practice, the entrepreneur that I want to be, or if I'm doing it to earn a gold star from you or Tiffany. And I remember she said, wow, that is so insightful. I was like, yes. Right. The layers, Pam, the layers. And that has been. Very difficult for me. I have said yes, without truly thinking through what I'm agreeing to, what I'm committing to. And I have one of the, the common symptoms of codependency is we're extremely loyal and we stay in situations that too long and. Where it's unhealthy for us really to remain there, but we sacrifice. We make time. We take time from others in order to continue with our commitment. Last, we make someone angry or disappoint them. And that, that has been very difficult for me. And so thankfully, I being in a course with Tiffany, she's a woman of color, a female therapist. And a lot of what she, she coached and encouraged me to do. Wasn't alignment with what the practice and entrepreneur I was trying to become. I've also taken courses by men by white men. By white men who are not therapists. And I have at times gotten lost in their counsel and I have agreed or done things in my business that I looking at their success. I assumed that. That was in alignment with what I wanted to do. And so really having to learn. Yeah, just really trying to be grounded, which is so hard starting out because when I started, I didn't know, I want to do a podcast now, here I am with the podcast. So I would recommend for budding entrepreneurs too. Right. Seek out coaches like Pam who are in alignment with at least where you're starting, what you sense you're trying to create and take the advice. Take the counsel, meditate. Think it through before you take action, make a commitment, et cetera. One thing. In entrepreneurship is, is this fast pace? No fear. Decision-making take risks. Take chances. Say yes. And I would encourage a balance between, so, I'm just holding my hand to one side and then I flipped to the other. So this, this spectrum or this, these extreme. Yes. You want to take risks? Yes. You want to agree to things quickly without letting fear overtake you on the flip end. You don't want to think through the consequences of every decision you make. Also trying to cultivate a balanced approach where you at least give yourself 24 hours or 72 to. Meditate on your own seek advice from trusted others who are in similar fields. I can't ask my dad about my podcast. I can't, I can't ask my dad hope he'll try and have me ask him, but it's you're not my audience. You, yeah. He's okay. So not, not ask people who aren't somewhat related. And when you do make mistakes, when you do make impulsive, I made a lot of impulsive purchases, but that hurt cause it's oh, for example, for my podcast, I I have a podcast attorney. You helped me create an agreement, establish an LLC. And once we got all that done, he suggested me retaining him for six months. For ongoing support, given that I really did need him a lot at the beginning, Pam, but after the second month I had no need for him nine. No. And I was honest with him and said, Hey, cause we were meeting, we kept meeting like every other week or something. And we were just filling time and fluffing up an hour. And I said, Hey, I agree to this. I will pay you for the six months and I will notify you if and when we need to set up a call that hurt. And that was a. No advice, no counsel, no meditating decision on my part, but I liked him. I sense, I did want to make him feel good. I'm out of all the help, he he'd helped me with. And I. Prioritized him and his request above were just looking ahead. Yeah. How, how am I going to need this guy in three months? Right? What is the baby podcasts going to need from an attorney in three months? Yeah. And that's, that's what I would recommend. Just, being aware, it's going to be hard to, to say no, or push back with a coach. And also if, if you're taking their advice meditating on it, seeking counsel, taking some time. Then moving.

Pam:

Yeah. And so, I mean, just to really reiterate what you were just saying. You're, you're really talking about getting clarity on whether the decision that you're making is the decision that you're making, because it's the right decision for you and your business and who you want to be as a entrepreneur or whatever, or if you're doing it because. Well, this person, and I see this a lot in the entrepreneurial world. You're talking about the fast paced is that well, this coach has make tells us that he makes, because we're not looking at him and his bank statements, right. This coach tells us that he makes,$6 million a year. And so we should do what he's doing because he says, that's what he makes. And this is the way that you do it. And so you have to do it like that. Even if you're everything in you is screaming. We have a tendency to go, okay, I'll buy this thing. I'll pay for this thing. I'll pay for this high ticket coaching or whatever the case may be. And I just had a conversation this morning with with my assistant is that is as far as I'm concerned as a coach, like if you've hired may have a group coaching program, you have access to forever. If you, if you buy into it, if you hire me as a coach to work with me in a group setting and you. Do all the things, and then you need six months from now. You're like, Hey, I need to, I need to revamp this thing. You still have access to these. And like also just ask me questions because I will answer them. It's just here to be of service. I don't, it doesn't matter if I make$6 million a year. It's not why I'm out. So I am doing what I'm doing. Right. And so finding the thing that, that you can make a decision based on your own. What aligns for you and not hustling until your eyes bleed, because somebody said that was the only way to be successful, or that was the only way to find the love of your life. That was the only way to whatever the thing is that you're trying to achieve.

Marissa:

Which is so great. Did hustle till my eyes bled in 2020, the wild west of, of building my practice virtually, and my practice got to full. It was too successful. It was too overwhelming. And I had had the clientele, had the big number at the end of the month was the success story in the coaching programs I was in. And also I remember launching the podcast January of 2021, all that hustle. And then sitting here at this desk. Putting my hand, my head on my hands and crying before therapy out of nowhere. And just my body saying I'm tired, I'm tired. And so that, that was my body, right? Me ignoring that, that fatigue, that tiredness that no, let's, let's read. When, yeah. Especially in 2020 with the marketing courses, it was just like, go get him, do all the things. I'm a white male and not therapists and really successful. And, and it, it worked externally. And also internally I was in the same place I was. When I was freaking out, cause I had, a handful of patients at the beginning of coronavirus, like the same emptiness, even though I was full with all this flushed with, a successful practice because it was not ultimately aligned with the practice, the work I want and hoped to do.

Pam:

Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's so important. And that goes back to that is this, is this aligned with, I always say the human, I want to be right. Because at the beginning of it all we're human beings. Right? And so whether it's a, as a therapist, as an entrepreneur, as a mom, as a dad, as a brother, as a sister, as a mother, as a whatever, whatever, all the, all the things, all the roles we can play in life partner and et cetera, et cetera. Does this align with the human being that I desire to be? And if the answer is no,

Marissa:

then what? Right.

Pam:

So I love that you're that you're doing this work in the, or helping people dig through and figure out how, what is. What is going on in there and what do I need and how do I validate myself? It just so stinking valuable. Because even in, even in those of us that are not maybe struggling with codependency or are not struggling with anxiety or depression in the world of entrepreneurialship, we're like, Is this good enough? This is good enough. This is good. Am I good enough? And right. Is this good enough becomes, am I good enough? And then I need view to tell me that I'm I need my gold star that says you're doing great. Yeah. Because how we do things in this, in this world of of small business ownership and so. Then then all the validation comes from, and it's fine for people to validate you. It's fine for people to say Hey, it's gotta be hard going through that. Or if I were in that situation, I might feel the same way or whatever, whatever, right. Whatever the validation is, it's, you're doing great. It's fine for people outside of you to validate you, but it's equally as important for us to all be able to validate ourselves. First of all, be able to reflect on. The inner chatter, the conversation, the noise and for us to be able to make decisions that aligned, especially when, unfortunately I've seen a lot of, I've seen a lot of female entrepreneurs starting out that have, are sinking, have, have dropped in 10,$20,000 on coaching programs that they've gotten nothing out of or some sort of something along those lines that they've just. No, I just, it didn't work. It didn't, it didn't help. It didn't, it was resistant, whatever the things are that come up, that's unfortunate. And I think that you're right in the sense that we do, we do sometimes get go back to that place of, Ooh, I want that shiny thing. I want that successful therapy practice. And so I'm going to do all of these things and I'm just going to, push and push and push and push and push until I can't until I'm dropping into bed at night. And can't, can't even keep my eyes open during dinner. And, we start to the things start to fall away, right? The self care stuff starts to fall away. The meditation practice, the journaling practice, the eating healthy, then moving the body. All of the things that we do to. To try to find that kind of place of balance that you were talking about starts to fall away. Yeah. So if you had one piece of advice, one like place to start for our listeners of like how to do some of this work or how to even recognize whether they are codependent or not. Anything within this realm what would be your, would be your here's my golden nugget that I'm gonna offer you today? What would that be?

Marissa:

I would encourage them to be mindful what greets them when they wake up and what they think about before they go to bed. And whether that is. Concern for someone looking at that, if it's concerned about how people would perceive you looking at that and in entrepreneurship, if it's excitement, if it's. I'm trying to think what I wake up with excitement, eagerness or excitement and eagerness. That's that's a good sign. You are creating the business that arguably hopefully is in alignment with where you're headed. And then, yeah, again, before bed, who are you thinking about? Or if you're worried about people's perceptions of you or if it's oh, tomorrow I'm okay. I have an interview with Pam and then I have a virtual coffee with a Toastmasters guy. Cause I'm thinking about joining Toastmasters. Then I'm meeting with this lady. You were going to talk about social media and podcasting. And then I'm going to hang out with my husband because I don't see patients on Mondays. And if they have a conflict in their scheduled later in the week, they know Mondays are available. But today, patients, yeah. I've worked out. I did my spiritual practice. I already journal okay. On the right path.

Pam:

Yeah, I love that. I always find that like laying in bed at night is the time where the, you're trying to fall asleep and all the things. And sometimes it's oh, I have this thing that I was supposed to, I was just pick up the dry cleaning and I forgot. And sometimes it's that kind of stuff, right. That pops into your head. But that tends to be the worry space, right. That tends to be the timeframe when our worries come to the surface. And so I love that. Bringing that awareness and just tuning in recognizing Hey, what is, what is happening in that time for me? Am I somebody that can like peacefully drift off to sleep on the, on a regular basis? Or is it. Am I waking up in a, in a, a place that is not of service to me. Am I going to bed in a place that is not of service to me? And what does that look like? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because step one in all of this, in everything that we do, right. Is always awareness. It's recognizing that there's something going on that you want to do something about. So. Thank you. Thank you, Marissa. Where can our guests find you? Where do you hang out? If they want to connect with you? If they want to message you, if they want to follow you, follow you. Where are you?

Marissa:

I'm. I have two websites therapy with marissa.com. One are two SS and CodePen dummy.com. Social media. I'm on social media. It's not truly aligned with where I'm headed and what I'm doing. So I post weekly episodes announcements at therapy with Marissa on Instagram. And if people want to chat, it's going to my sites, sending me an email. Go check out the self-validation challenge or the it's called confiding. CodePen dummy that journaling prompt collection.

Pam:

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So, so going there and grabbing those things would probably also give people an opportunity that listeners an opportunity to like hop on your mailing list or something like that. So they can hear from you. Awesome. I love, I love I love when I have that opportunity, you want to hear more of what Maresa is talking about more of the educational pieces. All the work. You can get on her email list. And if there's anything specific in today's episode, that you are just really spoke to you, you want to chat about, you want to share about I will link up the way to contact us in the show notes and we would both love to hear from you and as always guys, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate the hell out of

Marissa:

you. And I look forward to

Pam:

seeing you all

Marissa:

next week. Take care.