Episode 24: The Messy Truth: Mom's Edition Parenting is Hard Work!

Are you a mom who has struggled over the past few years? Are you feeling stuck, whether in your career, or as a stay-at-home parent, and are looking to find some path to shifting out of the dark and into all that is possible for you?

If so, this is the podcast series for you! Over the next 5 weeks, Casey Cormier and I will dive into more topics related to motherhood in this laugh-out-loud funny, and cry together relatable content about the Messy Truth of Being a mom in this day and age.


If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram Stories and tag us, @pamgodboiscoaching and @societyofmessymoms

In this episode you’ll hear:

• The truth about our messy selves, as parents and humans. 
• The weight of being a mom in this time frame, regardless of all the support and help you do or do not have. 
• The importance of doing your own healing work and the impact that has on your parenting and relationships. 
• The realization that what you are teaching your kids REALLY matters in a big way. 
• How the haunting stories of your past can and will impact you and everyone else moving forward if you don't shift the patterns. 

Connect with me:  Instagram, Facebook, and Tiktok. 

If you’re like “I love listening to Pam chat with guests.” Then head over and write a review! We really appreciate your support and it helps us to keep growing!!  https://pamgodbois.com/ApplePodcast Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to tune in next week.

The best thing you can do for yourself and your kids is effectively regulate your nervous system. And a great place to start >> to wire the brain for gratitude. Research tells us that gratitude increases happiness and a peaceful mindset. Make the shift and watch how things in your life start to change. Sign up today! www.pamgodbois.com/gratitude

Transcript

Pam 0:00

Hey, mama's happy may. So for mother's day, this month, We have a five week series. That's going to be coming out on Tuesdays. And this is episode number one of that series where myself and my right hand, Casey Cormier. Chat about all things, motherhood. It was very first episode. Is about the struggle of finding that balance of taking care of ourselves while we're taking care of the world. So if you're a mom looking for some tips on how to survive this. But also just wanting to feel like you're not alone. This is the place for you. Let's dive in Welcome. Welcome. Welcome today. We're jumping into a topic that is relatable to so many of us, and it's the topic of being moms. Being moms and the world we're living in and being moms that are entrepreneurs being stayed home while I was being moms that are trying to figure out what we want to be when we get. It's a series that I'm starting that, but I'm starting it. I'm not doing it solo. I'm doing it with the amazing Casey Cormier, my assistant and right hand and my neighbor and my friend. And so I'm super excited that we're gonna do this together, so, yeah. You're welcome, Casey.

Casey 2:14

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Pam 2:16

On the podcast you guys have heard me talk about being a parent and having a 13 year olds over 13 year old daughter. Casey has two boys,

Casey 2:25

wild Wildlings, as we like to call them. How old are they? They're almost eight and almost five, both July babies. Exciting.

Pam 2:35

And so you have been a stay-at-home mom of four, almost five years.

Casey 2:42

Yes. I left my career as an esthetician when I was about five months pregnant with my youngest Abrams. So. Five years about the nose, which is crazy. So wild. He feels no time at all. And also 154 years at the same time. So accurate.

Pam 3:05

Oh my God. So accurate. That's kind of how I feel with a 13 year old and like, how do I have a 13 year old? I keep saying things like, but I'm only 27. I don't have a 13 year old as a possible?

Casey 3:16

That whole saying the days are long, but the years are short. Yeah. Some days drag, but then you blink and a decade has gone by.

Pam 3:25

Right? Right. And I think about we both have I have, my, my father has passed away. Your mother has passed away. We both have single grandparents and I think about like my mom's role in my daughter's life and I'm like, oh my God, before I know it, I'm going to be the 78 year old. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It is. It's kind of crazy. And like our role as parents, we were just talking about before we hit record, like we're the first generation of parents that are in therapy, right. Where the first gen generation of parents that are actually looking at our own shit. And we wanted to talk about some of that today. Yeah.

Casey 4:06

I think that it's a huge. It's a commendable thing for all of us who are digging in. One of the things that I've been reflecting on as of late is not repeating patterns. And while I had a remarkable upbringing, I had parents who put all blood, sweat, and tears that they possibly could into raising my siblings and I beautiful child. Really can't complain, but even amidst that there are things that you can carry through to your adulthood, that your parents are doing something well-meaning well-intentioned and it screws you up a little bit. You have to do a little bit of backtracking and diving into how to break certain, excuse me, certain cycles. So they aren't repeated. And so I've been very reflective of that as of late with, raising. First and foremost kind humans, but well adjusted kids who, are good with talking about their emotions. They don't feel ashamed in anything. They don't have shame in their bodies. They don't have fear of coming to my husband, arrived for anything basically. So just creating this space for that as they grow and mature and they're able to have harder conversations Or we need to have harder conversations that they are comfortable doing all of that. So I've been reflecting a lot on how important it is to be doing our own work through that. Yeah. Yeah.

Pam 5:41

And I think that the first time I realized that I had. The whole boatload of things that I need to look at and same, same are our upbringings are similar. Right. My parents were loving and caring and did everything they possibly could to provide everything they possibly could for us. But yeah, they still fucked us up a bit. Sorry, mom. It's just the way that it is. Right. And I always say, been a therapist forever and I always say. Our job as parents is to fuck our children up less than our parents fucked us up. And the only way that we can do that is if we recognize our own behaviors, our own patterns, our own stories and how those are impacting our current circumstance. I do remember Marley was four years old and we were in. Joann's fabrics. I think getting a birthday present for a friend and there was something that she wanted. It was one of those stupid little craft kit things. And we were in the process of trying to teach her that just because you go to a store, doesn't mean you get something great. Just because we're here. Doesn't mean we have to buy something for you. We're here specifically to buy a gift for your friend. And she picked out something for her friend and then saw the thing right next to it that she wanted. And she was in full meltdown mode in full like sobbing hysterically, a scene like that. And I was like, there's like this component of me, this is like the old me, right? The 22 year old me that's teaching parenting skills. I had no business teaching parenting skills, but 22 years old, I was teaching parenting skills. And I hear that version of me being. Don't engage in the drama. Don't engage. Don't, don't blow up at her. Don't she's doing the best she can. She's just trying to express her emotions. And I hear this voice in the back of my head and I'm like, my blood is boiling and I'm like, This kid is going to be the death of me. And I looked down at her adorable little face and she was this tiny little peanut when she was four. And I had all the things in my arms and I just dropped them on the floor and I got on my knees and I was like, do you need a hug? And

Casey 7:54

she was like, yeah.

Pam 7:57

And I gave her a hug and we, I mean, it could have. 30 seconds. It could have been 30 minutes. I would, I don't know. And we just sat there and I held her and we breathed together and I said, see if he can breathe with me and we breathe together. And I have no idea. That was, that was not like a, a pre-planned like, this is what I'm gonna do from now on repairing. I just was like, I had this impulse that this is what I needed to do. And I leaned into that. And since that day, she still, when she gets upset at 13 years old, I'm like, do you need a hug? And she's yes, I give her a hug. And she goes about her day and because they do need help grounding, but I'm, I recognize that the thing in me that wanted to be like was the story of story from childhood.

Casey 8:41

Don't you dare. Yep. I've definitely had those moments too, where you're in public or you're just at your wit's end by, 6:00 PM or whenever the hell time it is. But you can just have those moments of, I can't properly address the situation at hand, but then you can have those aha moments that these are little people who need to be. Uh, you know, Half the time it is just that they need to be, we need to calm down together. Let's take some deep breaths together. Let's hug it out. Let's you know, can you talk to me about what you're feeling rather than just being screamed at? Not allowing them to feel their feels and giving them the space to do that is 90% of the time. I find also with my kids that they that's what they need to, it's just, I need to be heard. I'm flipping my shit. Because I just there's something more going on or I just need Anita, let's talk it out movement.

Pam 9:45

Yeah. I don't have the skills to be able to calm myself down. Right. And I

Casey 9:48

can't communicate properly. All of the big things that I'm feeling. So I need you to get on my level.

Pam 9:55

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I was at pretty much everybody knows that Marley's a black belt in karate and we were at karate the other day. And one of the, I don't even know what you're talking about, but I said some, oh, I know what I was talking about. I had chopped a towel at her. She, I asked her, throw a towel at me and I'm like, you're 13 years old. You should know how to throw a towel across the room. And she threw a towel in the, hat, six inches from her face. It caught wind and dropped to the ground. Six feet away. I'm like, that's not gonna work. So it picks up the towel and I balled it up and I said, this is how you throw a towel. I threw it at her and it caught her glasses and she was in hysterics. I was like, I am that mother. Oh my God. I am the mother that like, I can't help it. I just start laughing. And I'm like, oh God, I'm sorry kid. But I can't help it. So I'm dying and she's crying. And I said to her, and I'm retelling the story of credit. I said, okay. Are you physically hurt or are your feelings hurt? And one of the other moms was like, oh my God. Only from a psychologist. I have never, in my life said to my child or your feelings with her crying. And I was like, maybe you should start. Truly, but there was a component and she was like, both. I'm like, okay, you're mad at me. And. Right. It doesn't matter what the feeling like, when she was little, it was like, am I, I, I fell and I got scared. Right. And so my feelings got hurt. And now it's I'm pissed at you because you just hit me in the face with the towel and it kind of hurt. Cause it caught my glasses and made a red mark on my cheek and whatever. But there's this it's interesting when, when you start doing your own work and you lean on the things that, you know, and. I remember working with little kids and being like, oh, these kids just need to be heard. They need to have a voice. And we're making assumptions. Right. We do it with adults in our lives, too. We make assumptions. Somebody doesn't call you back, or somebody ignores a text, you see that, they've read your message and they don't respond. And you're like, oh, they're mad at me or whatever. Right. Whatever thing we do with our spouses all the time. Right. Somebody short, or like you ever had your husband come in the house and just run up the. And you're like, what did I do? Why is he mad at me? He didn't even say hi. But we do that with our kids too. We make assumptions about how their feelings of asking them about how they're feeling or what's going on or what the experiences and. 'cause we're neighbors. I know your children very well, and your kids are great at that. I mean, your kids are the, they tattle on themselves. Right? They're like, I just did this thing. It is so precious because they're like, ah, I did this thing and I know I shouldn't have like good jobs, like a parenting win, when your kid tells on themselves. Right. It's just such an interesting, it's so interesting that our stories like impact them in so many ways. And those stories, I'm just not just talking about the, myself when I was four years old. Are you when you were, almost five and almost eight. But the stories, what that creates, right? What all the stories created, the messes that we are the messy bits. Yeah.

Casey 12:56

And I think that it, it's such a remarkable thing because. Obviously you can't take the good without the bad everything, all of those pieces make up who we are. And it's just fascinating to kind of see when you bring awareness to the parts of you that are not your favorite pieces of yourself or things that you know that you want to work on or, that have created ongoing issues within your life that you're trying to fix and then transpose onto your. It's just very interesting to see how that all connects and who, the result of the result of all of that ultimately, and coupled with just who they innately are as people, because there's also that piece, right. That we have our hand in a lot of it, for sure. But who, who are they just on their own? Who were they born as? Who are they going to grow up to be? That's just innately within them and what our influence on them has and who like the pieces of them that are just going to remain those pieces for all the live long day. Right?

Pam 14:02

Yeah. Because we're not the only influences on them. Right.

Casey 14:05

They're their own, they're their own little influences too. And I think it's. Sometimes it can be hard because there might be pieces of our kids' personalities that are challenging for us to deal with, but they're just parts of who they are. So that's also another piece of growth where we have to learn how to navigate. Okay. This is just part of my kid and I love them implicitly. So I'm not going to try to parent that piece out of that. We have to learn how to navigate that. It might be something that just is like oil and vinegar with something about our personalities. I have a couple of those things with each of my kids or that there are things that are so similar to me that I'm like, what do you think you're saying to me? Oh, that's me. That's I'm seeing myself in that moment. So it's just, it's all very interesting. Exhausting. Amazing ride being a parent.

Pam 15:07

Yeah. Yeah. And we were talking about being moms and being, and having to kind of do all the things. Right. And I have a husband who's very, and my husband's a therapist and he's very like, what can I do? How can I help? How can I show up and be there? Right. And I mean, I've worked. I went back to work when Marlene was six months old and I didn't work full time, but I've, I've been an entrepreneur for 13 years basically. And so there were a lot of things that he was relied on to take care of. Right. He's got to pick her up at daycare these couple of days a week because I'm working until eight o'clock similar to how you were as an esthetician. I was the same as a therapist. Right. And so, but there are still. To this day, things that he'll say, what can I do? How can I be helpful? And I'm like, you could take care of all the planning organization for sure. I could not have to tell you to call the thing. Can you call, Hey, can you call the pediatrician's office because you're, you have time to do that. And I don't think.

Casey 16:11

It is. It's very interesting. The, the pieces that just, and every everyone's relationships work differently, function differently, look different. But certainly for myself, my husband is amazing shows up in all the ways. He's fantastic. But those things do fall typically on my shoulders. I don't know that he'd be calling to make an appointment at the doctor's office for them. That's a lie. I mean, he absolutely could, but it's just in my wheelhouse. Those are the things that I do. There are a part of the day-to-day rigmarole stuff. But it, it does. You're dealing with thinking about people who are working full time, people who are working part-time, I'm, I'm a stay at home parent right now, which has its own set of exhaustive things. But I, I kind of don't know what I would be doing if I was also juggling what I'm doing with them and working full-time so I can see all, all sides of it because it's all exhausting. But Yeah, all of the, all of the extras, the doctor's appointments, the shopping, the meal, planning, the writing practices on the calendar, the juggling of the things we're always, there's 10 different plates in the air and it might seem like not a lot, but at the end of the day, when you like, can't shut your mind off because, okay, now I'm thinking about what just happened and also what's to come tomorrow. So it's, it's hard to. I keep everything running and keeping your own bucket filled because I, I know for myself that I oftentimes find I'm pouring from an empty cup and it's, I want to be the best version of myself for everyone in my life, everyone in my family. But it's hard when you're, you're going, going, going, you're doing all the things and you don't have the moment to like, how do you recharge, right? What, what are the ways in which you recharge when your partner works full time, you have kids and activities. You have a kid at home with you still, I'm not. I don't have a huge window of opportunity and that's probably me making excuses, but it's hard to, it's hard to find time to, recharge and feel like you're operating at a hundred percent. Every day.

Pam 18:50

Yeah. And, was just thinking about the, the laying in bed at night being like, oh, I got to make sure this thing happens. I'm going to make sure that bad thing happens. And, and, I'm the one in my household. That's like the add brain. Right. That's how a hyper-focus I can't remember things. And yet when I, my husband's great at the call the oil company and make sure. This thing happens or I'll mention something and he'll make sure he's got a mic. He runs, keeps them running a running mental list. That's foreign to me, but when it comes to something as simple, so along with, her baking and karate Marley also plays the violin. And I have been saying since day one, That is the one thing that is going to be your responsibility to my husband, because Marley also God lover has add. And can't remember like she's has every intention to practice the damn violin and then it's nine o'clock at night and then it's time for bed. And she's I didn't practice the violin. I'm like, no, you didn't. And. When it's something, and this is just an example, but this is it's is Jeff's job to say, okay. They pick two days a week that she's going to practice and now she's in middle school. So she has orchestra in school. So she practices there, but she also has private lessons. So your separate music that she has to practice. So I was like, okay, if you can practice twice a week, When is she and I, she there's like a, these are the things I have to get done. They get done when he's there. And I just say, okay, it's up to you guys. We had a, we had a stretch. It was like, I don't know, two months that I was paying for her to go to lessons and just going to lessons. And she's going to see miss Rebecca and she's showing up and doing the work with her, but not, there's no practicing going on. There's no practicing going on at all. When's the last time you picked up the violin at home and she's I don't know. I'm like, okay. But I refuse, I absolutely refuse to take it back as my responsibility or refuse. And there are so many things that as parents, as moms and sometimes dads too. What we're talking about is this like hanging on to all the things being the, it would say like the prefrontal cortex, right? Being the organizer, being the thing that the, the being that has to plan all the things and knowing that things are, know what time pickup is so that, if you can schedule a doctor's appointment or you're like, oh, He's got PE at the end of the day, on that day. So I probably could get them early and it's not going to be a big deal. He can run around, he's not missing anything, the

Casey 21:24

schedule, it's just the thinking, the thinking 10 steps ahead or knowing 10 steps ahead, right? This is how our day functions. This is how X, Y, and Z works. And it's just, and maybe some of that is just our normal wiring or the difference in wiring. But yeah. There are some days that I'm like, oh, this is all just second nature. It's all good. It doesn't like, it's just, it's going, it's flowing. It's fine. And then there are other times that I'm like, if I have to plan another damn meal that no one eats or like my very strategic grocery shopping and half the shit on it is oh, I decided this week. And I'm like, geez. Or I'm not going to eat anything green based like the cereal. Goodbye. I love my children, but then the meal planning is something that is currently the bane of my existence.

Pam 22:22

Yeah. Yeah. There are the age and your kids are funny. Cause they'll be like, I remember when Oliver decided he didn't like. Oh and Marley was like, I don't talk to you anymore. Right. And

Casey 22:35

also he doesn't like cheese. Who are you? Did I birth you really?

Pam 22:38

Right. But they go, he's gone through and this, and I remember Marley going through that and she still does actually at 13. Now that I think about it, there are things that she's yeah, I'm just not really into that anymore. And it's not like a, don't she'll eat it, but it's just not it's the thing that comes home on her lunch every day. What do I keep sending that, that scene? That's literally the same applesauce that Abraham probably just ate when he's going to school and going home and going to school and coming out. Yeah. And I feel like something's gotta give with that, right? As moms, because you can't, you, we can't be running around taking care of whether you've got one child or whether you've got 17 children, it doesn't matter. Like the more children you have and just the more activities, the more schedules you have to keep straight, the more like the, the more there is on you to take care of these things. And when your, when you're already living in a pandemic world with. Resources being limited or disappearing or whatever, all the different things that have gone on. I'm like, my brain is going like a thousand miles a minute right now, as I think about them. But all of the things that have gone on that have increased our stress level for sure, because we were like, is that a state? Is that, what about those people? Can we, can we do there? Can we do that thing? Can we go there? Can we go to this birthday party here? And what is this gonna look like? And we went into Lowe's yesterday. I have a package of masks. I have a couple of packages of masks in the car disposable masks and we get to lose and Marley's sitting in the back seat and she's like mask and she's like handing out masks and I'm like, well, how did I not bring a mask with me? Like what is going on in my brain? I

Casey 24:22

think, I know there's still it's, it's an interesting time right now, because I feel like since we're out of the quote unquote thick of it and, the, the, hopefully the hardest part of COVID it is interesting that, that now shift of we're slowly getting back to, we lived very conservatively throughout the pandemic and we. Didn't do a lot for awhile. And now we're S we're definitely like back into getting into some sort of quote unquote normalcy again, but it's weird transitioning back into what that looks like or what feels comfortable for you and your family and it, COVID, isn't going away for sure. So it's something that we are going to have to continue dealing with, but I think. What you just said with, something's got to give it, it does it's not the way that we are living the amount of pressure on all fronts. It's it's just not sustainable. Like it's it. Maybe it's sustainable, but is it fulfilling? Right? Do you love your life? Is it, are you where you want to be? Are you the best version of yourself? Or are you even able to work towards the best version of yourself? And that's where I am. I'm like a pretty cool person, but I agree. That's up to me right now. But I'm, I said this to my husband the other day. I, I feel. And it's one of those things I hate. It's like you feel a little bit of shame associated with saying it out loud, but I feel like a shell of my best self. I feel like a shell of who I used to be. And. Who I want to be. Right. I feel like I have so much more to give and to offer, but I'm, I feel like I'm coming up short every day, because like I said before, I just feel like I'm kind of pouring from an empty cup and it's, it's very hard to be your best when that's, how you're navigating. Life. Right. And I can guarantee that I'm not alone in that. And that's why I feel comfortable sharing it. Whether you're working 70 hours a week, you're working from home, you're a CEO, you're a stay at home parent you're, whatever it is, life is just tiring right now. And figuring out the ways to. Replenish or how to navigate tasks differently or how to assign different things within your household, how you carve out time for yourself, all of those things it's imperative. And I'm trying to figure out that, that balancing act, because I don't have all of the answers right now, but it's something that I'm very actively trying to figure out because I realize like I'm 35 years old. I don't want to feel. This tired. I don't want to feel this exhausted. I want to be like the lively person that I know that I am. I've just the last few years of flood,

Pam 27:42

right? Yeah. I think you're right. I mean, in not being alone in that because. And there's a difference, right? There's a difference between like today was hard and pre you know, we think, I mean, who can even fucking think back pre pandemic? It's it's been like 300 years. I know. It's been 300 years. I look at things from like 2019 and I'm like, what is

Casey 28:06

that? Look at pictures of myself. I feel

Pam 28:10

When they say like, when the presidents go, they take the picture of the president when it goes into office and he comes out of office and how much he's aged in that timeframe. I feel like COVID has done that for me out a doubt. I'm like, damn, I look like I've just had two terms as the president.

Casey 28:26

Well, shit.

Pam 28:27

Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I mean, it just think that there's been that, that level of. Stress and all of us. Right. And I mean, stress, that's what it does to the nervous system. Right. It, it breaks down the collagen and elastin and it, it just, it just breaks down our systems, screws us up, screws, our physical, emotional, spiritual health and wellbeing. And so now it's okay, now we can do with that

Casey 28:50

right now. Now I think a lot of people are recognizing those things in themselves. And now it's like, how do I rebuild? Where do I go from where I currently am to start getting back to where I was or where I want to be. Even if it's not, you're not working backwards necessarily, but okay. We're here now. We've arrived now. How do I know?

Pam 29:17

Yeah. And I think also knowing the difference between, because I think as moms, we have a tendency to just let shit pile on was it's fine. I got it. I'll just take it and just put it on my shoulder. And

Casey 29:25

then you have a mental breakdown

Pam 29:27

and then you have a mental breakdown and then you blame it on other things. We're both been there through this process, right? Like it's the, it's the spouse, it's the loss of a parent. It's the. Times that we're in, it's the whatever other things, right. There's 40 million of them you could pile on there. But I think knowing the difference between yeah, the world has changed in my stress level as risen and like I'm, I'm beyond the preventative type care. Right. Cause I think a lot of us do try to use preventative care for our physical, emotional, spiritual health, and wellbeing as moms, as. Entrepreneurs as employees, right? We're like, and everybody's walking around like hating their jobs, hating their kids, hating their spouse, hating their life, hating their right. And I don't honestly don't actually mean Haiti, but I

Casey 30:22

mean, you think about the.

Pam 30:25

Going back to who's the person that I want to be. Who's the mom that I want to be. Who's the wife that I want to be. Who's the friend that I want to be the daughter that I want to be the, all the roles that we have and what's actually going on, what am I actually, where's the discrepancy? What am I actually experiencing? And how much of that. For lack of better terms, burnout and burnout is an increase in our stress level with, with a lack of increase in resiliency. And eventually that becomes a diagnosable mental illness, quite honestly, like that's the, that's the system, that's how it works. And that's how our bodies work. And so knowing if you're at a place where you're like, I'm just gonna take a day or I'm going to take a couple hours or I'm going to do the thing for myself. And you're like, what could I possibly fucking do? And the next three hours that's gonna boost me back up. There's nothing. There's nothing that I can do. I'll see it in a month. Right? If you're at that place, You probably need something more than just you more than just like your self-talk to kind of move you in the direction you want to be moving in. And I feel like for so many of us, we just kind of go oh, it's just, it's just that, it's just this added one more thing, added one more thing added, but like that's the whole straw that breaks the camel's back that whole. Sure.

Casey 31:44

And the thought that for, for the at least the last, I honestly look back for myself, You can attest to some of this too, with having lost your dad. But after losing my mom, that was Oliver was two, he's almost eight. So between that and like grieving for all forever, I will continue grieving forever because that was such a huge loss. And then COVID for two plus years at this point, It just life became survival mode. It was let's keep, you know, doing our best to make our kids' lives, the happiest they could be. But it was like, what do we need to do today to get through today? How do we make today? What it needs to be and blah, blah, blah. And it's hard to then break out of that thought process. It's hard to, Use the term sometimes surviving, not thriving. And it's, it sucks being in that place. It's very hard to realize that, okay. We're just like going through the motions and this is not the like day-to-day life that that I'm hoping for in the future. It's not what I want for my kids. It's not what I want for my husband. We're all fun people. We want to be doing lots of fun things. So breaking out of that is definitely it's an ongoing and long-term process, but being aware of it, I think, and recognizing and talking about it is some of the preliminary steps of getting beyond it, because there again, the whole, like there, you feel ashamed that you can't do it all right. That you. Or even having a hard time doing some of the pieces and that I think for some people, especially with stay at home parents, like what do you have to complain about? You're home all day. You have all the time in the world, you, you don't see the stressful sides of it where there's zero separate, at least for right now, with, I have one child at home with me still full-time yeah. And we went through like remote learning during COVID. So I had both of them home with me the whole day, every day. And there there's no separation, so it's very, you, you get sucked into them and you do lose you because there's no space for you in, in that life. So now that we're coming up from error from. And my oldest is back in school. Full-time my youngest will be in at least part-time kindergarten, this coming fall. And I'm fine. I'm seeing a little bit of the light at the end of the tunnel, that there will be there's time for me. I'll be able to recreate myself and all that, but there's, there's shame associated with it because people look at you're home all day. You can do whatever you want. You can label. Which is all well and good. I do obviously have more free time than someone who was working all day long. Sure. But with that, I have to fill 14 hours a day with kids. Yeah.

Pam 35:01

And I think of, I always think of kids, I always have come up with these like strange analogies. Right. But You're the container. You're the bucket and kids are like water. They'll just fill up every space that you give them. You don't block that shit off. They'll just fill it right up. And. I think as moms in particular, we have this belief that that's what it means to be a good quote, unquote, good, good mom. Right? To just do what my kids want me to do with them. I, oh, I'm going to play Play-Doh with them all day long or whatever, whatever the thing is though. I always say play though, because when I was when Marley was really little, I was working with kids as a therapist and we're doing a lot of play therapy, so there's a lot of drawing. Playing with Play-Doh and painting. And then I would come home and Marley would want to do those things. And I was like, absolutely not. I just did this 14 hours. I'm not doing it with you. And then I would feel bad about that. Right. But I think as, as a parent, we have this belief that we've, we've assigned whatever. To be a good parent. We have assigned what it means, everything good and bad. We have these we live in a world of black and white everything's good or bad. And if we just kind of came all, we could all just come into the gray a little bit more and recognize. It's okay. It's it's okay to let your kids watch a movie. It's okay. That

Casey 36:21

some of the, I was joking about a girlfriend joking with a girlfriend about this the other day that she had said something about, fast food or something of the like, and how. It made me think. I remember with my oldest being so proud of myself, that he didn't have screen time and, and we were not like crazy with as first-time parents, but screen time was one thing that I was like, whatever. Well, that'll be a hard that's something we're going to focus on. So he didn't watch TV until after. We literally hadn't ever gotten fast food. We have gotten takeout and stuff, but had never gone through a McDonald's or something. I don't know why that was like, probably because of the association of that being a quote unquote bad thing. And I don't want to be a bad parent. And now I was, I said, girlfriend, the other day, I remember that he never experienced that. And now I'm like, Watch as much TV as you want chicken tenders all day long, go to town because also they're not sitting in front of the TV, 24 hours a day, every day. They're not eating chicken tenders and fries. Every meal of every day of their life balance exists. If you have a few days of being like, I kinda can't just go do your thing. I need some time to not be like interactive, go watch TV, go play, go. Obviously if you have kids who are old enough to be doing that on their own, but my fortunately are currently but it's, it's hard on those days that you're like, if I have to draw another, like tic-tac-toe or. Build another magnet castle or whatever it is right now, mine are currently into Legos and that's actually a huge kick for me because I love Legos. But it's all of, it's challenging, there's no, there's no two ways about it, especially when you're trying. And it's all hearkens back to what we started talking about with not trying, not to repeat that. And do even just a little bit better hopefully than what we experienced growing up. Even if we shift we're able to shift one thing that was really hard for us growing up. It's I think if we're able to do that and make a concerted effort in that, then we're, we're all doing something right. And our kids are. If we think about, the amount of change that has happened in the world over the last, however long, you want to look at the scope backwards, but what we are hopeful for the future to be we're raising that generation and our kids will raise that generation. So it's a huge task to be given, to raise well adjusted humans who are then well adjusted enough to hopefully. Another future generation with an even better outlook on things and even better way of doing things. Right. Because I think the world, like everything just needs to be shaken up. Everything could use a good getting turned on. It said, yeah,

Pam 39:50

cleaning out the cabinets. Yes. Clearing all the clutter out of the closets. I just did that. So that's why I didn't clean up the cabinets. I literally just got rid of all of our. We have some but not many. And it's kind of funny because I'm like we got rid of like boxes and boxes and boxes of dishes. Cause I had so much and I was like, I just can't anymore. I don't want any of them get them out clear about. And it's funny because we have probably, I don't know, for dinner plates, by a new set of plates, there's no buying them yet. And then Eight luncheon like the smaller plates and that's it. Everyone around here uses all the time. And Jeff might as well pull those out for like dinner for an actual meal. And I'm like, how are you gonna fill your food on? That is wrong with you. Anyway w right now our dishwasher is full. Like it needs to be run, and I'll hit Ron when we're done with this. We have no dishes in the cabinets because that's how many dishes we have, which in my mind is perfect. I'm like clear it out is perfect. The perfect amount of dishes that means. But I mean, there is a component of like just clearing out, just clearing out and we have a tendency to hold on to things. Because things remind us of events or people or experiences. And so we hang on to them and if that's your thing, it's okay. But recognizing that things, aren't going to fill the holes that you're struggling, the emotional struggles. Totally. And then what it comes down to is you have to be each and every one of us has to be willing to step up and take responsibility for our own. And then when we do that, when we say actually, no, I get that three hours today is not going to solve all the world's problems. But if I had three hours today, what could I do with that three hours? Or if I had 30 minutes today, what could I do with that? And, it's a very unpopular opinion because as parents, I feel like we don't get enough sleep as it is. But if that means you got to get up at half an hour earlier to like, do the thing that you need to do for half an hour, then do that. Totally. And. It might not even take a half an hour. One of the things that I teach about a lot, and you've heard me say, this is when you open your eyes. There's like a training that happens in the brain. When you open your eyes to another being meeting you, and your first reaction is to provide for that being. We've got an 18 month old dog who likes to wake us up. So it doesn't matter if it's like a dog, a child, a spouse, but when you have another being depending on you for something and you put their need before yours on a daily basis, ongoing your nervous system starts to recognize that what you need doesn't mean. Hmm. And then the thoughts of what you need stop rising to the surface you stopped going. So one of the exercises that I will do is I have them each morning when they open their eyes. The very first thing they do is ask themselves, what do I need right now? And sometimes it's I just need to close my eyes again. And sometimes it's ah, my hip hurts. I need to stretch. And sometimes it's. I need a cup of coffee and sometimes it's I have to go pee. Sometimes it's I got to brush my teeth. Right. But when you ask yourself, what's something, what do I need to do right now? And then you do it. What starts to happen is then, neuropathways in the brain, start to shift and start to adjust. And then you have the opportunity to do the things that you need and then your nervous systems as, oh, this is important. Okay. So now we're going to bring to the surface of things that you need, so you can become aware of them because how often does moms, did we say what do you, what would make you feel, oh, what would help you to be the person that you're saying that you want to be? What if you would have half an hour, what would you do? We're like, I don't know the story of my life, I mean, that's the, that's the, and, and, and we certainly will talk more about that, but I mean, I think that that's the, that's the starting point. You're gonna start asking yourself, what do I need, what do I need right now? And then doing it? And

Casey 43:57

it could be something like, if we're starting from a baseline of doing nothing for yourself and not carving out any of that, And that's kind of where I'm at personally thinking about. So my husband tries very hard to balance off the things that he does extracurricular wise, and to open up time for me to have those moments and half the time he's like, all right case, you're up, go do your thing. Bye. Have fun. And I'm like, ah, What's that now, where do I go? What do I do? Who haven't? So finding even something menial, something small, it doesn't have to be anything grandiose. You don't have to go work out for three hours. You don't have to, go stay overnight somewhere. Like just do something small that is going to help replenish you inside. Even very, very small way. Yeah. Very baby steps. Go buy yourself a plant, go for a walk in the woods, away from all the things drive to the beach, go write for an hour. seriously, just anything that you can check out. And most of us don't have the ability to just check out for days on that. Yep. So carving out and actually utilizing the small frames of time that we, that we have and can be using them. Beneficially for ourselves is paramount because as we said, like continuing over and over to do this is just, it's not a sustainable thing. So starting with very small building blocks as a foundation. Try and move forward and build upwards.

Pam 45:53

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that if we're, if we can start, because you talked about, we talked about patterns at the start of this, right. And building awareness and becoming aware of the patterns and noticing what's showing up and noticing. Hearing my mother say something to my 13 year old daughter, then I'm like, oh my God. She used to say that to me. Do I say that? Right? Becoming aware. Right. So knowing the things is one thing, but you've got to do something with it and just simply deciding to take action in some way, as a means of. Nurturing yourself taking care of you and allowing that to be the thing that that's becomes a catalyst for change. Yeah,

Casey 46:42

absolutely.

Pam 46:44

Cool. So, I mean, I guess that's the, that's the takeaway today, right? Is you gotta, we gotta start somewhere and it doesn't matter. I doesn't matter if it's, you've decided you're going to drink more water. And so that means you actually, you know how often as parents, we have a kid that's I'm thirsty or okay. And you get them a drink, but how often are you? Oh my God, I'm so thirsty. And you don't actually get up and get yourself a drink of water. You're like, I'll do it when I'm done with this thing. Like first I have to fold this mountain of laundry, then I can have a drink of water. Yeah. Yeah. It's a crazy thing. So

Casey 47:20

it is because sometimes it is literally just basic. Ne that that can wait, I'll put that on a shelf and deal with it another time, but like now's the time.

Pam 47:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also allowing other people to take care of you as well. Even if it's little things, right. I often say my 13 year. She's going to be a chef. So I'll say, Marley, what are you having for breakfast? Did you like? Hmm, I don't know. I was thinking of it as an eggs. I'm like, perfect. Can you make me so, or even just Hey, can you grab my water bottle? That's sitting on the counter. Right? It doesn't, it doesn't have to be like, you might be like, oh, that's nice. But if you've got a water bottle sitting on your counter, probably. One and a half year olds can grab it for you, even if you don't get a 13 year old for that. Yeah. So, but being able to, and, and I think setting, setting boundaries and limits with our own time and being able to, like I said, kids will take up their like water and they'll just fill up the container, and you'll get sucked into that. And that'll be the end of, your next 14 hours will be kid focused. I mean, how many, how many times this is a really good question to ask yourself. How many times did you put your kids to bed and. Oh, thank God that is over. That's not how we want to feel. That's not, we want to, and most of us as parents, when we have those thoughts, we then feel shitty about having those thoughts, correct. Guilt,

Casey 48:40

then that then creeps in is crippling. Right?

Pam 48:43

So instead how about just starting to cultivate and create space so by the time you get to the end of the day and it's time for kids to go to bed, you're still at a place where you're able to enjoy the time with them. Okay. Absolutely.

Casey 48:56

And you're not tossing your kid in and saying goodnight and on your knees with gratitude after you closed the door. Right. But yeah, it is. And that's such, such an important time of day, too, for them like setting there now is setting off to recharge their bodies. Right. It's a reflective time for them. Too. So yeah, being able to be for many parents, obviously that time of day is a tricky one because it's everyone's fried, but I try very hard to maintain my patients through that timeframe. So we can end the day on a, on a positive note and not as stressful one. Right?

Pam 49:40

Yeah. Yeah. I always find a. In the 20 plus years that I've been doing the therapy game, that as the adult, when we lose our shit, as we're putting our kids to bed, the night just becomes disrupted. They're waking up, they're having nightmares. They're like all the things. Right. And is it going to like scar them for eternity? It will be okay. But it's going to make your night shitty. So yeah, yeah, totally trying to. And that's the whole benefit of asking yourself, what do I need and taking care of that, carving out some time each day. And it doesn't matter if it's five minutes, it does not have to be five hours. Right. But purposely with intention carving out time for yourself so that you can take care of your own needs and. And then just practicing, like being present because the other issue is that so often we're at that thing where that scheduling we're doing in our head and the planning and all the things we're just waiting for our kids to close their eyes and stop talking or to get to the next page in the book that we're reading to them so that they can go to sleep because we have things that we have to do. Yep. And so if you just say, if you just, if you just let them watch TV for half an hour in the afternoon, right. Then you can do the thing that you need to do so that at the end of the day,

Casey 51:00

that's, you're able to be. On the forefront and not

Pam 51:05

be present. Yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing worse. I am like the worst. Like I am not somebody that like put my kids to bed and then I can do the things that. Mike, there's something in me that says when my kid goes to bed, I'm like, okay, goodnight. I think it's time for me. And now at 13 she's I'm like, I'm going to bed and she's I can't let you stay for a little while. I'm like, okay, nice, bad. I can't handle it anymore. It's been too long. So, yeah, but I mean just kind of keeping, keeping those things in mind as a parent and as a mom in particular and leaning into the idea that. If you can love your children unconditionally, then you can love yourself unconditionally. And if you were to do that, where do you want to argue with me about your unconditional love for yourself or not? If you were to do that, what would that look like? Right. And so often we it's pretty easy. I mean, when I had Marlene, I was like, oh, this is what love is. Okay. Now I get it. I don't think I knew before. Like I really knew. Right. So, and I think for a lot of us as moms, we that's an experience that happens that we're like, ah, get it. It's a whole nother level. Right? Yep. And so when you, if you can do that for your kids, how do you go about doing that for yourself? I'm just starting to kind of get curious about that. What can I do if I loved myself unconditionally, how would I demonstrate that?

Casey 52:31

That's a very poignant question to pose because I think for so many, that would be like the, the change in quality of life would be very dramatic. Yeah.

Pam 52:46

So that's it for today, guys. We're going to cut you off right there. I know we're getting to some good stuff, but thank you so much for listening in and if there are topics or conversations or things that you want, Casey and I to mull over, let us know. I will drop off. Instagram handles and the show notes. And you can let us know. So thank you and have an amazing rest of your day. Take care guys. Bye.