The Peaceful Home

Episode 38: The Path to a More Fulfilling Life with Bonni Mace

July 19, 2022 Pamela Godbois
The Peaceful Home
Episode 38: The Path to a More Fulfilling Life with Bonni Mace
Show Notes Transcript

In this week’s episode, I had the chance to chat with Enneagram Coach Bonni Mace. Bonni is passionate about helping women, couples and organizations develop empathetic and compassionate self-awareness. In her work, she helps individuals understand their motivations so that they can find fulfillment in their lives and relationships. Understanding the why without judgment, but rather with empathy, can open the doorway for an amazing journey. 


Bonni Mace is a 9w8 Certified Enneagram Coach. She loves helping people learn to live from a mindset of Compassionate Confidence by learning to use the enneagram as a tool for empathetic self-awareness. You can work with Bonni via one-on-one coaching or by joining an Enneagram Growth Group.



If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram Stories and tag us, @pamgodboiscoaching and @empathetic.enneagram.


In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Bonni shares her journey to greater fulfillment and connection. 
  • Embracing the paradox, and learning how experiencing all experiences will move you towards fulfillment. 
  • Bonni shares how understanding self with compassion and empathy makes all the difference in your self-development journey. 
  • How the bumps on the roads become blessings and create a shift. 
  • Learn how to use awareness of self as a tool to grow and cultivate the life you truly desire. 
  • Understand how Enneagram can help your self-discovery journey and where to begin. 
  • Learn why just knowing your Enneagram type is not the whole picture, and what to do with the knowledge you have. 


LINKS:

Bonni’s  Website: http://empatheticenneagram.com/

Bonni’s Podcast: EntrepreNINES

Bonni On Facebook



Facebook Group For Moms: The Messy Truth: Moms on the Path of Rediscovery

Connect with me:  Instagram, Facebook, and Tiktok


If you’re like “I love listening to Pam chat with guests.” Then head over and write a review! We really appreciate your support and it helps us to keep growing!!  https://pamgodbois.com/ApplePodcast Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to tune in next week.



The best thing you can do for yourself and your kids is effectively regulate your nervous system. And a great place to start >> to wire the brain for gratitude. Research tells us that gratitude increases happiness and a peaceful mindset. Make the shift and watch how things in your life start to change. Sign up today! www.pamgodbois.com/gratitude

Have you been struggling to feel fulfilled in your life or your career? And maybe time to gain a deeper understanding of you. And you're in luck because this week on the out of your mind podcast, I have any Agram coach, Bonnie mace who uses the Enneagram and her coaching skills. To help you become more empathetically. Self-aware. Of not just your behaviors, but your motivations and driving forces as well. So if you are a self-development geek, like I am. You're not going to want to miss this episode.

Pam:

Bonnie, thank you so much for being here with me today. I really appreciate your willingness to come on the podcast and share your story and what you've been up to. So can you start just by telling us a little bit about who you are and what you do, and then we'll jump in from

Bonni:

there, with your. Yeah, well, Pam, thank you so much for having me. It's been fun to listen to a few of the episodes of your podcasts as well. So, as you said, my name's Bonnie and I am an Enneagram coach or personal growth coach might be a more approachable way to put that. And so what I do is to help people, to cultivate a mindset of what I like to say is compassionate confidence, where we learn to embrace. All of who we are, strengths and weaknesses, gifts, and struggles with empathy, grace, compassion, and love. And so that's, that's my angle. And that's what I do. I work with individuals or businesses who want to have a more empathetic team culture. And then also, couples are in there as, as well. Anybody who wants to take where they are and plow forward with a little bit more compassion, grace and love for themselves. So that, that's what I do. Was there more to that question? Did I forget how I think

Pam:

that question that's perfect. Yeah. Okay. And I think it's amazing because we need that. We are in a culture where we need. We so need to be having a little bit more compassion, a little bit more grace, a little bit more self love and empathy. As we move forward, because as you are well aware, uh, we go through struggles. Mm-hmm and it's very easy to get down on ourselves or beat ourselves up or judge ourselves because we go through those struggles. So I would love for you to share with the audience, your story, like, how did you end up here doing this work? What

Bonni:

brought you. Yeah. So I grew up in a sort of culture where the, the highest achievement for a woman is getting married and having those kids. And so that's what I always knew would be celebrated. And I've always kind of been this chronic. People pleaser and wanting to make sure that people were happy with what it is that I was doing. So I had lined up my whole life to be around this idea of like I could be with my kids and all of this stuff. And then fast forward to, I had a job in ministry where I was doing marketing and communications, and then I finally arrived like my husband and I had the baby and I sort of had this moment where I was like, this is great. I have the kid. Everything's wonderful, except for. I feel like maybe there's more, that needs to happen here, like what's going on. And luckily right about that time, the company I was with at the time introduced any Graham training and what any Agram is, is essentially it's a personality system based on nine personality types and it, and it allows you to see not only the things that you're bent towards doing, but what motivates. The things that you're doing, how you perceive the world and how you contribute to the world. And so I was basically given at this sort of strange identity crisis moment in my life, the ability to have some self-awareness and it became really revolutionary for me because I'm an Igram nine. And so if your listeners out there know about it, Ingram nine, We are the most self forgetting number on the Ingram because we tend to edit ourselves from the room in order to not create conflict. So we are really like go along to get along people. And when I learned that about myself, I was able to see all of my life behind that, how I'd gone, gone along to get along and why? At my current moment, I was feeling pretty empty because I never stopped to ask the question, wait, is this something that I want, is this what I'm happy doing? Is this what I'm gifted at? I just sort of picked things that made people that I thought would make people happy along the way. So, Long story short. I really dove in head first to Igram learning. And I did that just like on Instagram and podcasts to start out with and reading extra books and things like that. And then in 2020 I decided to buy 2020 that fateful year. I decided to buy an, any Graham coach. Training program. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna jump in. I'm going to buy my kid an extra day in preschool so that I can get this certification quickly. And I'm gonna be, I'm gonna start building this Ingram coaching business along the side. Well, that was March 20, 20 mm-hmm And so I did one extra kid in school. learning day before the preschool was like, actually, we are not gonna have children here anymore for a while. So all of that really hit the breaks for a while, but I finished my certification right after I had my second kid. And then took the leap towards full-time Enneagram coaching. About this time last year, it's about a year ago that I decided to step away from my. Then full-time job and pursue building this Ingram coaching business. So that's kind of where I was and where I am now and how I got from here to there. Yeah. So

Pam:

it's so funny. I can't tell you, uh, probably 90% of the podcast interviews I've done so far with, with coaches or people that are stepping into, creating their own businesses. It's like this, this, I started this beginning of 2020. And timing and then the things happened. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, it's, it's such an interesting, such an interesting thing that kind of unfolds there, but, I'm really curious to, to know. So you kind of alluded to your background growing up in an environment where it was very much the goal is the ultimate goal is to, to be a mom mm-hmm And I think that regardless of. The, whether it's religious pressure, societal pressure or family pressure. I think that there's a lot of women out there that can relate to that. Mm-hmm And so what was that? What was that shift like for you? Because the way that you described it is I, I felt like maybe there was more, this thing showed up. I was able to learn that, Hey, maybe there are other possibilities, but what was that inner work like for you? Cause I'm sure that it was not that easy to just be like, I have all these years behind me of this is what I should be doing. And now here I am and maybe not. Yeah. Hmm. Maybe not, maybe there's more.

Bonni:

Yes, for sure. There is a lot more, so, for me. For me, the, the shift towards becoming a mom was kind of like a very huge rattle internally. This is a part I left out of this first story, cuz it's not necessarily related to the professionalism, but my son was born seven weeks early. So I really categorized. His birth is like a traumatic birth experience. And then we were in the NICU for five and a half weeks after that. So I really had this like picture perfect thing going my pregnancy was really easy. Like I didn't even really throw up. It was great, and then boom, all of a sudden I had a traumatic birth story and this hard stay in the hospital and all of these fears that came up. So for me, like the shift happened when I realized I did all the right things. I was checking all the right boxes and still a wrong thing, a wrong quote, unquote thing happened mm-hmm to me and to my family. And so it was hard to categorize or justify that in my mind. And then when we were like getting back on track and trying to have life as normal, whatever the case might be, I could feel like, wait, this isn't. Fulfilling me the way that I feel like it should be. So not only did the beginning of my motherhood journey start, like what felt like a train wreck to me. It also, when things were normal, quote, unquote, back to normal again, I was thinking why, why don't I feel fulfilled inside all the way. And so that really began the journey of. Wait like what, what is it that I want? Like, why don't I feel fulfilled? This is this is the highest calling. This is what I'm supposed to do. And I, and I also have a career and I'm really still I'm really successful there too. So why don't I feel. Satisfied inside. And so that's really where the soul searching began. I think a lot of the soul searching that we have has to kind of start at some of our lowest points, unfortunately. Which for me, again, I like to be an optimist and see things on the bright side of life. And so having to face the things that are less sunshine and rainbows really makes me grapple with things that brings. Brings more wholeness if you will into life. And so, that time really did force me to, to think about you. all of life, not just the highlights, not just the things I'm doing, right. To get the right things out of life. But what does it mean that we experience hard and good. And what does it mean to not feel fulfilled, but be successful? So that journey for me really, that's kind of where it started. And it's really just been a bumpy. Time of just facing really hard things and thinking, what did I contribute? What can I learn from it? What's mine hold onto what's mine to let go of And then doing it with just palms up is one thing that I say a lot of times doing it palms up because when we live life palms up, like what comes our way we can receive what needs to go, can go away. But you get the fullness of all of it. You're not grasping onto something that's going away and you're not grasping at things that you can't have. And you're. Closed off from the things you need to receive. So that, that was a, that was a big part of the journey for me was just suddenly having to learn a really hard thing that, you don't think you deserve. Nobody deserves to have a NICU say that's, it's not anything about what you put into life. It's just saying. Can life still be good. Can I still be satisfied when there's really hard things? And then what does it mean to find that satisfaction? Almost satisfaction. That's not a word we could just coin it today. Yeah. Yeah. I always make up words. So that can be the for today. Yeah, but what, what does it mean to have satisfaction? And contentment and peace, which is really important for Ngram nines when things are really hard, cuz life has really hard moments. So that was a, that was a large part of it for me. Yeah. So how did

Pam:

you do that work? What helped you through that process? Cause as a side note, My 13 year old was nine weeks early and we were also in

Bonni:

for five and a half weeks. Okay. We have that in common. Yeah. So I

Pam:

totally, I totally feel you. And you talk about the, the, the NICU stay. I have a different, a little different perspective on it, and I think it's just where I was at at the time. But there is something to that, right. There is something to starting off, especially with your first child, starting off motherhood in a way. Radically unexpected mm-hmm mm-hmm And regardless of the support you have in place and how many skills you have, and I was a therapist, right? Yeah. Regardless of what's there, what you have access to, you have to decide, you have to choose to seek the support or receive the support, or be in a place where your palms up and you're allowing things to, to flow into you. Was helpful for you. What were like, what did you do to help you through this process of, from where you were going into your going into the birth? Right. Of yeah. Mm-hmm, everything's gonna be wonderful. And, and then coming out on the other side of your son being born and the NICU stay and all that stuff and feeling unfulfilled and then kind of. Shifting and moving to where you are now. What are the things that you've used to help you in that process?

Bonni:

Mm-hmm yeah, for sure. So, empathetic self awareness, that's been a huge thing. And so for me, the most effective tool has been any Graham I've been I've, I've used things like Myers, Briggs, and strength finders before. And they're helpful to say here's what you're good at. Here's what you're maybe not good at, but having the. Having the understanding of here's what might be motivating, uh, everything underneath what you're doing or how you're perceiving or what's stopping you was really beneficial to me because I am an introspective person, but I wasn't necessarily aware of what was going on to cause the sort of ruminating in my head or reframing or, or things like that. So having an outside lens to sort of. Put my actions and my thoughts up against and say is. Is this what I'm doing because I'm afraid of, of causing discord in my relationships and losing people from my life is that's what's is that what's motivating me. And then being able to say, okay, yes, that is what's motivating me now. How true is that? How true is it that if I. Assert myself in this way that it's gonna cause this fallout and I'm gonna lose these people in my life and that you can, you can play that. Is it true? Is it likely, can you survive this sort of fear spiral game? And that caused me to be braver and braver. What happened is I started showing up as myself for the first time in my life. And what I discovered is that my relationships actually got deeper. And so then my community really showed up for me then. And they taught me how to, how to open my palms and how to receive, because I've. Had had it put out there that it's, it's good to give and it's good to be generous, but the flip side of giving and being generous through donating or serving or whatever, is that in order to do that from a, a real place of love, you also have to learn how to receive too. So I had to learn how to receive, and I did that by being surrounded by people who loved me and wanted to support me in those moments and people who wanted to say to me, the hard things and the good things. And say the word and, and there too, and help me grapple with the idea of life can be hard and good mm-hmm and things can be painful and powerful in our lives. And the gift of paradox and being able to say again for an Igram type nine who's the peaceful person and wants everything to get along. Things that felt in conflict before were things that I would just avoid. So being able to, to say that. Just because something seems to be a conflict with itself doesn't mean that it is that paradox is a great thing, and that we can embrace that we can embrace the me the messy middle. And that's actually what true. Peace making is about. And what true contentment is, is to be able to say, this is hard and this is good. Or, this is painful, but it's important. And all of that then brought out this deeper part of me that was always there but needed a little life through the community through the lens of self-awareness that a Abraham brought. And then finally for me too, like my faith was a huge. Huge propeller through this whole journey, as I've always had a background of faith but being able to pair if you come from the Christian tradition, you understand that there are conflicting things in the CRI, in the Christian tradition and inside the Bible itself. And if you are. Brave in your faith. And if you trust God, you can look at those things in the face and start to understand the beauty of paradox and the things that are there. Or you can try to go and subscribe to black and white moralistic, few of things and keep your faith really small. So again, this whole experience then brought in the richness of I, of the gray areas of God. if you will, for me. And it expanded and deepened my trust in God, because before, before all of this hard stuff happened to me before I, reached the achievement of womanhood and then realized I still felt empty inside. I saw religion and, and faith is sort of like a vending machine where if I put the right things in, then the right things come out and that's just not. How it is. And so when things like that happen and you, you think you put the right coins in and then what comes out is not what you expected or what you wanted. Being able to trust that God is so good through all of that. Mm-hmm is hard. But is really rewarding in the end. So I hope that kind of answered the question. Yeah,

Pam:

for sure. And I heard that. And when you said, like I did all the right things mm-hmm and then this still happened. I still had a traumatic birth. We still had these complications. We still had these things arise and that, so I love the analogy though, of the vending machine from a faith perspective of. If I do the right things, if I add the right things in and the right things will come out. And I think in business, we do that too. Like mm-hmm if I just do this thing, and if I just do this thing, then these are the results that I'm gonna get. And there's so much more depth to that. There's so much more gray and so much more if you can have a deeper understanding of your self and your connection in this case to your faith and to God, then you can have the understanding that. Everything is a paradox mm-hmm and it has to be because if, if it was not a thing, like if everything was sunshine and roses, all the time, rainbows and all lovely things, we would not be able to appreciate it. Mm-hmm because we wouldn't be have anything to compare it to mm-hmm and so we have these paradox, we have these things that we compare to and we go okay. Yeah. All right, could have been worse. Mm-hmm here's the positives, here's the silver linings. Here's the opportunities for growth and the things that I'm gonna embrace and draw in. So,

Bonni:

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And here's what this hard stuff made out of me, I think we oftentimes We look at resilient people, especially as business owners, right. And people building a business right now. And we see resilient people. We read the memoirs, we read the, how they built this, or listen to that podcast. How we built this and we think, wow, they're so resilient. That's so great. So good for them. But we don't realize like all the mucky stuff they went through, uh, to get them there. And we forget that resilience doesn't come on. On the precipice of the rainbow, like that's not where you build that, that quality in yourself, you build the resilience, in the mud pit and in the dips. And there's a really beautiful part of yourself that grows there. But we often like to. Sort of turn away from that beautiful, seed bursting underground that we don't know about. That's in the dark, in the mud, in the quiet, all the work starts there first. So, yeah. And I think you hit the

Pam:

nail in the head when you said that, that we don't know about when we're not aware of. And we don't recognize because it's because unless you wear the glasses, unless you have the lens. what's the thing that I'm, how am I growing? What am I learning here? Mm-hmm what is this experience bringing? Or how is it enriching my life or the lives of others? Unless you can see your struggles through that lens, you can't see the possibilities mm-hmm until you get to the other side or you hear somebody's story. And you're like, oh, there story is so amazing. And they're so resilient. And I mean, you look at, 90% of the. Top performing entrepreneurs that, that do share their stories. They're sharing stories of struggle. Yeah. They're sharing stories of like immense trauma abuse, all these things, right. They have these really complex stories that created in them, a resilience that allowed them to push through the crap of yeah. Starting a business, which is not easy. it's not, not at all. It's much easier to just go get a job and have somebody else pay you, but mm-hmm. There's a, there's a reason we do this. There's a reason we do this

Bonni:

work. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, I mean, I think that's another thing that having or cultivating the ability to be self-aware and to then to be self-aware without judgment. That's why I say empathetic self-awareness because I think we can say self-aware without judgment. But one thing I've learned about having small kids is that you can't give them the negative, right? Like you have to say, you can't be like. Don't put your feet on the table. You have to say, can you please keep your feet on the floor? That's what a, we need that too. yep. As grownups, we need something positive. So I say empathetic self awareness so that we learn to cultivate the side of us that sees where we are now. And we don't have to have only hindsight. We can hopefully take a moment in our day to say this day felt very hard for me. What is it? That's hard. What am I dealing with now? And doing that from a place that's not why didn't I get as stuff as like a place of judgment says, why didn't I get much stuff off my to-do list today? I was feeling scattered and that's bad. A place of empathetic self-awareness says I. Didn't accomplish quite as much as I thought I might today. Let me examine that and just see, oh, I didn't sleep well last night. And that's because, know, I was feeling kind of nervous about this thing that my kid is doing today. We had a doctor's appointment that I didn't expect, or what, a year ago I'm remembering, this was a really hard day for me and my body remembers that stuff. And I remember that stuff, even though it's not at the forefront, so maybe I'm just gonna take a break because what's happening inside of me. Is a lot mm-hmm so that that's kind of angle. And I think having a tool, in our pocket that allows us to say you're not alone and you're, you're not. You're not crazy, right? Agram says you are motivated this way. So when you have discord in your relationship as a type nine, of course, the next day is gonna be harder because that's harder for you. So understanding what things are harder for you then allows you to exercise more grace and give yourself more grace than to say, I am resilient. I am doing something that's very hard today. And that's worth celebrating and moving forward. And so, yeah.

Pam:

Yeah. And so as you talk about this empathetic self-awareness, this is kind of your, the piece that you've added on from a coaching perspective with utilizing the toolkit of the Enneagrams cuz the Enneagrams is a tool, right? It's a resource as a tool. And so how are you doing that work? It sounds. You've done a ton of that work yourself. And you've talked about that a little bit and I would certainly love to hear more about how you've, uh, kind of. Done the work to cultivate more empathetic self-awareness and compassion. And then we can kind of jump into how you're doing that with other people. Mm-hmm. So can you tell, can you share a little bit more about

Bonni:

that? Yeah. Well, first and foremost, I'm gonna say counseling Mm. For sure. Understanding how to be kind to past the past versions of you is so important. And my counselor has been Just a, a rock in helping me, move forward in this way. And I will say if you're super stuck in things in your past, or you have a hard time, especially with, with past you you need a good counselor in your corner, you need good therapists in your corner because they're gonna help you with that. And that's where, that's where people like you and with, with that profession really help us to become all we can be. Because. Real hard stuff. Mm-hmm, number one for sure. Counseling and having my counselor again and again, say, just be nice to yourself today. is see I laugh uncomfortably now, cuz I know when she says that to me, I'm like, yeah, I was being hard of myself in that session. So that's been a huge thing for me and then learning to embrace. Like stillness and silence has been really important. It's really easy for me to. Numb the pain by scroll. My, my advice is like scrolling away on social media and vicariously living, through other people. So we always hear stories of very dramatic vices, like alcohol or drugs, but we all have them. Right. So mine is that. So learning how to get a handle on that and recognize when my scrolling becomes avoiding that line for me of, okay, I've now moved to avoiding what is it for me that I'm avoiding today? In giving myself tools and handles to then go and face that stuff is, has been important. So journaling has been, some of that's been helpful going back and then reading some of those entries, from the past to say, this is what passed me, was grappling with, look how, why she has been, that was impressive, or look how far you've come. She was really naive. uh, that helps, that helps there too. And then just. Making sure that I am consuming content. That is good for me. That doesn't stoke a lot of comparison. That's so easy to do, especially as entrepreneurs, especially as moms, especially as women, like there is so much out there. Marketing wise to make us feel less than mm-hmm So for me, really curating this stuff and trying to pull away the stuff that makes me feel shame. It makes me feel less than has been important work, because if you're not careful, and if you're not aware of it, you're consuming that stuff all the time. All the time. Yep. So becoming aware of that and giving myself permission to notice this makes me feel bad. Why does this make me feel bad? And then giving myself the next level permission to be like, I don't need that in my life. and taking it out has also been super, very, very helpful in cultivating some of that empathetic self-awareness. Yeah. And then I guess the last thing would just be recognize that I'm not alone. Everybody struggles, but our struggles are just different colors, right? Like they're all hard and they all take. Perseverance. And they all take strength and they, we all cope with them differently. But they just look different from the other. And we're always harder on our own hard thing than we are for everybody. Else's hard thing. So learning, or at least that's been my experience. So learning how to take the same compassion that I would give a friend or the same pep talk that I would give a friend. And again, this is counseling. That's brought this to me and then offer that to myself. Would I ever say to someone, well, that conflict shouldn't be that big of a deal like you should get over that? No, I would say, wow, that sounds really hard. You, you should take a break or I can understand how that would feel terrible. Let's go have coffee whatever the case may be. So those are, those are the things that have really helped. With offering that self, offering that stuff to myself. Mm-hmm

Pam:

And it sounds like when you were talking about the journaling, which I, I kind of love the language you used here, when you were talking about journaling and going back and reflecting, you used that language, the same language that you were talking about, that you would use with somebody else. You hadn't referenced it at that point, but you were like, Wow. Look at where she was at that point, look at where, look at how, and then, and embracing that and celebrating that. And so that's a great way to practice. If you're somebody that's listening, thinking like that's all fine and dandy, but I beat myself up every day. A great way to practice that is through regular journaling and regular reflection on your journaling. And then. Acting as if you were reading your teenage daughter's journal, mm-hmm, your best friend's journal. Mm-hmm you're, you're like somebody that you care wholeheartedly about their health, wellness and success in life. Because we should experience that. I don't say should very often, but that is one of the areas. That's one of your shifts. We should absolutely do the same thing for ourselves. If we could just embrace this idea. Uh, that, that we all need it. Mm-hmm and, and especially as moms, because, uh, I think one of the things, when we're women, when we're grown women, right, when we're adults stepped into the world and we're doing our thing, whatever that thing might be, we have a tendency to be like, Oh, I should be able to do this stigma by now and I should be able to do that thing. Oh yeah, it should be. And, and the world does that to us as well. Mm-hmm and if we can embrace this idea of being compassionate towards ourselves and just practicing it, just like putting it into practice, anytime you catch yourself. Being the opposite of the way that you wanna be towards yourself. You catch yourself and you go, okay, how can I say this differently? How could I support myself in a way? And just you pick somebody in your life. I, now I used to say my best friend and I love her dearly, but now I have a 13 year old daughter. Yeah. So I recognize that as like a very pivotal yeah. Point. Cause I remember it in my own life. Right. A very pivotal point from a place of What can you, what can I offer to her? What would the words be that I would speak mm-hmm to my 13 year old. And if you don't have a 13 year old, think about how you would've loved someone to speak to you when you were at a difficult age mm-hmm in your journey, right? Like how would I have loved? How would I have loved my mother to speak to me? If I struggled with this at 13? Okay. Then you start saying those words to yourself.

Bonni:

It's a great way to practice. Yeah, and I love the word practice that you use too, cuz I think that's another thing great. Like we, especially in American culture, for whatever reason, we have a bit of an obsession with perfectionism and thinking that I should be able to master this and master this quick. And again, this is where marketing comes into place, right? As business owners, we all get those ads that are like. Grow your podcast to 1 million downloads in three weeks. Exactly. Exactly. Or grow your social media following. We, we all get those things and it sounds like it should happen overnight. And so we take that stuff. That's marketing and usually. Is cheap and doesn't work mm-hmm and we apply it to our own selves instead of seeing life as a practice, like you are a human person and you will fail at things and that doesn't make you bad. And that doesn't make you flawed and that doesn't make you alone. And that doesn't make you dumb. There are all these things that we think I didn't get this right the first time. Or maybe I, this is when I struggle with a lot too. Right. I've forgotten this right. For a lot of times in a row. And now six months later, I'm struggling with it. Again, we think that growth is linear. Yeah, and we never circled back to the struggles that we had. So that's a place where I find myself all the time being like, I thought I mastered this and here I am having to give myself grace and care for the same thing that I need to learn again or in a new way or whatever the case might be. So that word practice, I think, is so important. Once we give ourselves permission to practice. New habits and new ways to talk our, to ourselves and new ways to embrace ourselves. Mm. That's where some of the difference can really come in. I think too. So, yeah. And you spoke to that with,

Pam:

With the being like, why didn't I get as much stuff done today? Oh, I realized that this was a difficult day for me. A year ago, seven years ago, it doesn't matter. Right? Whatever, the, whatever the timeframe is, this is a difficult day. And even though my co my conscious brain is not remembering it, my subconscious brain and my body. No, mm-hmm And so they're exhaust my, my, my mind's exhausted. I'm have a foggy brain. My body's exhausted. I didn't wanna get outta bed this morning. I don't know why. And these things that I'm doing are at this point, I feel should be second nature in what's going on. But when you, when you kind of. Give yourself the space to raise your awareness and be more aware of, of like your in an empathetic way of your own journey. Then you can, then you can speak to those things and you may be like, man, I'd been doing this thing for consistently for six months. Why is it not working? I'd be like, oh, Oh, actually, my kid was up all night, last night. Yeah. I think I got, seven minutes of sleep all night, nor do I, I can't do this thing because I, my brain's just not online today. Mm-hmm like when the computer, when the, when the internet goes down, my, sorry, my brain's down today. I can't can't do this. Mm-hmm so being to move from that

Bonni:

place. Yeah, I really, I have a hope for everybody that I work with that they're able to embrace their own limitations. Some of the, some of the more unhealthy. Place that I've been professionally has been like no limits. Right? Like we like that. It sounds fun. In American culture, we, we like the idea, but no limits is a good recipe for burnout for not being self-aware and for like ton for ego or self deprecation. Right. So learning to know that you are a finite. Creature and that's good. And okay. And you do have limits and that doesn't make you less than the other people cuz the other people have limits too. And either they've learned how to deal with them. I wish people would talk about this more. They've learned how to embrace their limits and then they maximize what their strengths are or they're just lying to you. And like it's not what you see on the internet. Isn't real. So you know, I really do. Hope for people that we can embrace our limitations as much as we can, our potential mm-hmm because they go hand in hand and, and they're both good. They don't need our, neither of those things need our judgment. So

Pam:

yeah. Yeah. Oh man. I love that. And I think you're right. I mean, there's so many things that if we just could, if we could just have awareness, each of us as individual beings could just have awareness about ourselves in a compassionate mm-hmm and empathetic and loving way. Then we could communicate that clearly to the people in our lives and everyone would be doing it and it would be totally normal and nobody would be like, oh my God, I'm gonna be vulnerable. And somebody's gonna, reject me because of my vulnerability. Yeah. Yeah. And how much better would relationships be in our journeys be and how much more successful would we be if we could just kind of embrace this mm-hmm Yeah. Yeah. It's utopia

Bonni:

yeah, it would be great. And our, and our work cultures would be great. A piece of my story I didn't share earlier is that really? What, what pushed me towards switching careers last year is that I was burning out. I kind of alluded to the fact that that. That that culture was a no limits culture. Mm-hmm And unfortunately, and fortunately what the pandemic did for all of us was show us kind of at our, at our base, like a lot of what we have going on. Right. And so it just became more and more clear that this was a no limits culture. And I am not a person who wants to embrace that ideology. And I was watching myself feel Stretched. And then that would make me absent at home mm-hmm and then the stress of feeling absent at home would make me absent at work. So then I was just absent, you know, period and not bringing my best self anywhere. So really the embracing of my limits. I mean, that was a hard lesson to learn. Cuz I tried to do everything. All at once. And it was unsustainable and it wasn't healthy for me. I would argue it. Wasn't healthy for the culture where I was working. It wasn't healthy for my family. And so stepping into this business, we talked about a little bit of. The the, the paradoxes of life, right? Starting a successful small business doesn't mean you have like major profit margins to start out with. Right. And so learning how to define that as a small business person for yourself becomes important. So for me, it's become more of The values around, like how I want to be present in my home and how I wanna serve people and what story I wanna tell I don't wanna, present false urgency and I don't wanna present it as an easy story or necessarily, but I want it to be real for people because that's what we need. So, yeah, for sure.

Pam:

Yeah. And I love the idea of you need to recognize like who you are and what. And not just what are your strengths and what are your limitations, but who you are and who you choose to be. Right. Because I mean, at the end of the day, are you capable of being in the place and working where you were before yet? Cuz you did it so you're capable of it. Mm-hmm you just don't like who you are when you're in that environment. Mm-hmm because it leads to burnout because it makes you feel more absent and disconnected at home. And as all the things, all the consequences that arise as a result. Right? So. It's not that we're not capable of doing the hard things and being in environments that we don't really love and anybody that's out there listening that's that works in an environment for somebody else and is yeah, I hate my job. You know exactly what I'm talking about, right. That mm-hmm that you can do it. It doesn't mean it's. Be ideal. And how often have we look to like big companies like Google and whatever that have these amazing, environments for their employees to work in. And that's, their scheduling is all the things that they're, that, we dream about working for a big corporation for it to be ideal for us to thrive in that environment. But, but knowing I am not someone I am right there with you. I'm not somebody that wants to work a hundred hours a. there's a reason I don't work in community mental health anymore. Mm-hmm cause I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna be available. I also don't wanna be available in my clients 24 hours a day, which I was when I worked in community mental health. Right. Mm-hmm yeah, that's hard. And so we go through these things and we go no, no, that doesn't feel good. I don't wanna do that. No, no, no, no, no. So the more aware you are of who you are, the easier it is to. Craft the life mm-hmm that you desire mm-hmm which is why you become an entrepreneur. Right? So, yeah, with that, what is the work that you're doing now with people mm-hmm as an entrepreneur with your own small business, what are mm-hmm what's the kind of work that you're doing and how are you? How are you rolling that out?

Bonni:

Yeah. So my biggest initiative right now is brand new. And it's called Agram growth groups. And what I found launching a business here in 20 21, 20 22, when inflation is wild, is that people are pinching their pennies. Right. And so in what do we cut first? We. Investments in ourself that feel fluffy. And a lot of people feel that personal growth and what you're talking about of knowing who you are and feeling confident in who you are and offering yourself empathy and grace and cultivating, compassionate confidence. All those things is gonna be the first to go. So unfortunately, yeah. Which is not what we need, because one thing that I really believe is that the more we can offer ourselves those things, the more we have to offer our kids, our work environments, our communities, our volunteer opportunities, all of that stuff flows from. Secure, you know, and who we are. Mm-hmm and feeling confident and compassionate towards ourselves. So I'm launching this initiative called any Graham growth groups. And the idea is that it makes personal growth coaching, a little more accessible and affordable. And so right now I'm doing like a pre-registration. Where you can come in and we'll do group coaching based on your type. So we'll start out with type groupings that are similar. And then as the groups grow, we'll move to just like that single type together so that you can one meet other people who are, who are growing in this way. Cuz I think we negate the importance of, of like-minded community. Mm-hmm we can we can echo chamber, which is a bad kind of like minded community. Like we need diversity, but then we also need people who are going to cheer you on empathetically as you grow into who you're meant to be. So those groups are meant to both. Introduce you to other people, and then we'll do regular monthly coaching and I'll send out weekly reflection, questions, and growth prompts to help you actually take the head knowledge. Cuz there are lots of Ingram Instagram accounts. I have one too. I give the free information. But it's really hard to take it from, what we have in our heads to like, how does this make a difference in my life? Mm-hmm so the goal of those groups will be to help you take it from that's a fun factor, a funny meme to here's how this makes a real world difference for me. So that's a big thing. And then I also, again, I, I coach people one on one, and as we learn any Agram and the framework and the tool that that is. People always immediately, they, they throw judgment on themselves. Right. Especially when it comes to like our core fears and our core weaknesses and how we fight, people are like, that's me. And I hate that about myself. I'm like, oh, okay, well, let's stop right there. Let's talk about why you approach this this way. And let's offer yourself some kindness in why you might approach this this way. And how would you like to see yourself do this? Differently. Okay. Why is that? Okay. Let's now move towards that, but with kindness, cuz you can be hard on yourself, but that's not gonna help you change is my theory. Shame keeps you stuck. Grace helps you grow. So teaching people how to offer themselves grace and compassion for the full. Is where I come in. If, like I said, if you need to look back that's where someone like you, who does counseling should come in, but if you're ready to take where you are and grow forward, that's where I can really come in. And there are tons of any Graham coaches out there in the world who can help you understand the tool and how to work it. But where I come in is really with, let's help you learn how to use this as a tool for graceful growth and empathetic awareness. Yeah. Yeah. I

Pam:

love that. I love that. And who are you, are you working with anyone that's interested in this kind of work or do you have a

Bonni:

specific population that you're working with? I'm still honing Deni my niche. So I definitely serve women has been my primarily and moms as well. People who are wondering and wandering in their faith journey are people that I welcome because If you're a person who's gone from black and white to confused by the gray of your faith, I think I can really help you. That's something I love and embrace in our faith journeys too. So those are, those are generally the kind of people that I think I can offer the most support to.

Pam:

Awesome. Awesome. So Bonnie, where are you hanging out? Where can people find you? How do they connect with you?

Bonni:

Yeah. So on the internet I am on Instagram and Facebook, you can find me at empathetic dot engram mm-hmm are my usernames for that. And then my website is empathetic, engram.com and that's where you can register for. Coaching or growth groups, or if you'd like to have this sort of culture brought to your, to your team. So I will say I love working with churches and nonprofits who are okay with gritty. Too, you have to have empathetic. Value as part of your culture. And so if that's something you were to cultivate on your team, I'd love to help with that too. So,

Pam:

yeah. And you help people figure out when I was looking at your website, you help people figure out if they're like, I I've heard of this, any Agram thing, but I don't know anything. I don't know who, what I am or where I fit you, help people figure that. Kind

Bonni:

of stuff out as well. Yeah, for sure. I do. I offer typing sessions. Thank you for bringing that up too. I sometimes leave that new learner gap out there. Yeah. So typing sessions are something that I offer too. We often, especially if you're a person who's taken in any gram test and then taken a different one and a different one and you get a different result every time. Yeah. A typing session is a good place for you to go from there. Yeah, so usually we can sit down and figure. One or two types in an hour. So

Pam:

nice. So even for those people, whether even if they haven't taken, two or three Igram tests and have gotten different results, but maybe they've taken a test or a couple of tests, or over the years they've taken two or three. And they're like, I don't know if that really fits who I am. Yeah. I would imagine that that's a great, great opportunity as well, to meet with somebody that has a deeper understanding and can kind of help you. Yeah. Cause I think sometimes when we take those quizzes on anything, we're like, I don't know, is this me? I, I had my husband take stuff like just not necessarily engram, but, and he'll come back with these answers and I'm like, that's not accurate. Yeah. Did you answer what you thought the right answer was? You know what I mean? Sometimes we do that. We answer what we think we should say instead of what's actually going on.

Bonni:

So, oh yeah, for sure. I mean, that's the limitation with testing, right? Is it's going to ask you questions based on your behavior. Mm-hmm and then you add onto that layer. A layer of your awareness of your behavior. Yes. Which is something we all need to practice. Yeah. Is the awareness we bring to our behaviors and how we interpret. Life. So tests are sometimes a good starting place, but yeah, you can also skip testing and go straight to a typing session because what I'll do is help you get to motivations. And I know which what to listen for. As you're talking to say, I can hear you throughout this motivation a lot and this motivation a lot. And so I'd be curious if you can, think about this number and this number. And I tell people to try'em on like pants. You know, Cuz pants have to fit in your waist. They have to fit in your length. They have to feel comfortable. So that's kind of how we learn our Ingram numbers to just try'em out and think, does this motivation feel right for me?

Pam:

Yeah. I love that. Cause I think sometimes we get pigeonholed into here's my behaviors and this is what I do. But when you take it the next step of what, what is it really helping you with? It's great to be like, You have this type of thinking, or you act in this way mm-hmm but to know your motivation so that you can move forward in a way that is gonna actually benefit you. Yeah. And figure out how to do that based on your motivations is,

Bonni:

Yeah, it's a game changer. I mean, if I can nerd out for a hot second. So the, the, there are lots of types that share behaviors. So I'll go with my number, which is type nine, a peacemaker. And then number two, who's a helper. Both of these people want to. Others fiercely like that is they share a lot of the same actual behaviors and they will serve. And they love people where they care and they all of these things. But so a lot of times those two types will type as each other. But what is underneath of it for them is radically different. So that's where a coach really helps. When you do the training and you have, all of this knowledge underneath okay. So yeah, you love to serve other people, but why are you worried that if you don't believe you or are you worried if you aren't useful that they don't love you? Th that's a huge difference. Yes. And then you can challenge yourself to say, am I burning myself out as a nine? Like you served because you're afraid they're gonna leave you. Am I burning myself out for this person? Cuz I'm afraid they're gonna leave me. And how true is that again? And that's where your behaviors can start to shift. Mm-hmm so, so yeah, it's a great, great tool. It sounds

Pam:

like it, it sounds like a, it sounds like anybody that's listening that hasn't, that hasn't isn't kind of utilizing this tool in their life some way should get on and book a. And I was looking at your pricing on your websites. It's very, so if you're out there thinking I can't invest in myself, you can I, you could probably think of five or six things off the top of your head that if you cut out for one week, you'd be able to afford a session. And I'm talking like coffee at Starbucks. I'm not talking about, buying your new car. Right. Your pricing is very reasonable. And I think yeah, it's such an amazing, it's such an amazing tool. Mm-hmm that I've been hearing about forever. Like my mom, when I was growing up, like my mom had a friend mm-hmm that was. Used to be like, you're this number and you're that number? And I was like, what is she talking about? So yeah, it's, this is kind of interesting when stuff rolls back around

Bonni:

Uhhuh. Yeah. So that's, it's a long time tool and I would love it. People made that investment again, like I did mention, I want coaching to be affordable and accessible because I don't think that personal growth should be a privilege space. I think we should all have the ability to access ourselves at. Most awesome space. So, yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I love

Pam:

that. Well, Bonnie, thank you so much for being here.

Bonni:

Yeah, thanks for

Pam:

having me. I've enjoyed this immensely and guys, if you are listening and there is anything that you're like, oh man, that resonates with me. I wanna share please do hit us up, share reach out to us. I will link up all Bonnie's contact information in the show notes and we would love to hear from you. That's all I have for today. So thanks guys for being here. I appreciate you so much. And I look forward to seeing you next week. Take care.